Today, Saturday I just bought a couple grand worth of Silver

[hiwall]

I would never say that every prepper should have any PMs. Just like I would never say that every prepper should have a gun.
Some may decide that PMs make good sense for them while others might not feel that way. That is certainly fine.
I don't think anyone thinks the day after its TEOTWAWKI that you will be able to go buy anything with PMs. Maybe a year or more later it would be a possibility. But in places like Venezuela where the local currency was/is worth Nothing, then PMs are king. Except now in Venezuela I believe it is illegal to have any gold.
My point of view is slightly different than some others. I don't look at PMs as something to keep for after the world ends but as something that will have value if the world does Not end. Like every currency in history, the US dollar will lose its value at some point. And obviously it has been losing its value for over a 100 years already and is now worth just a tiny fraction of what it once was worth. Gold still has the same value, it has lost nothing.

 

[Tacitus]

I'm sorry. We will not be trading food or other resources for coins or bars of silver or gold.

Do you have any savings in the form of cash?...paper money in your possession?...digits stored at the bank? If so, why? Would you ever trade food or other resources for cash?

I'm not sure whether you would trade food or other resources for something in some future unknown scenario is a reason not to possess that something now which may have value in another future unknown scenario, like cash or gold or silver. When I started prepping, I stocked up on food and other supplies. Then I started putting extra savings away in the form of silver. Then I started to put that extra savings away in the form of gold. I still put away savings in the form of cash and investments. Cash is fungible, and can be converted into any prep item while cash still has value. Precious metals have value that is measured differently than cash, so if cash loses its value, and is replaced with other printed money that has no value, precious metals may still have value. Granted, PMs may not have any value at all, in which case my cash savings is also likely worthless, and I will have to rely on my food and supplies. But, there are many possible scenarios where savings will not be totally useless, and savings in the form of metal might be usable when savings in the form of cash are not. Am I putting all my prep chips into gold? Nope. Am I putting a small portion of my savings in the form of gold? Of course. I can always convert it back to cash instantly, which is harder to do with a 10 year old bucket of wheat.

 

[Tacitus]

I will add that I prepare for TEOTWAWKI...and I prepare for a peaceful retirement in a flourishing economy in a well run, peaceful country. When I got started prepping, I had already been prepping for the best future, so I put more into prepping for the worst future initially. After I felt that I could survive any initial die out in a dire future scenario, my dire prepping ramped back down, and I currently prepare 90% or more for better possible futures. But, I do still worry about mandatory bank holidays and/or currency crashes/hyper-inflation, so I prep for that, and precious metals are part of that.

 

[Rick]

I just picked up some more silver even though its up over a dollar per ounce from when I decided to buy more.
but its still low compared to recent years so I am happy with it.

PS: The only scenario where PMs (especially in easily denominated quantities like Silver coins or rounds) have no value is an outright zombie apocalypse. Any other realistic situation like venezuela 2019 or Sarajevo during the siege it will have significant value.

 

[SheepDog]

Precious metals will always have intrinsic value but when people have so little that food and water are the most valuable things in life the precious metals are only good to hold on to for when there is plenty again.
If I am the only guy for a fifty mile radius that has food enough to sell or trade, your gold and silver is lower in value than fuel and water. You see when life is hanging by a thread if what you have can't be eaten or drunk, provide fuel to boil water or cook food, or help in fighting disease then it is not worth much.
If I have more than I need to keep myself and my family healthy and happy then I might trade something for precious metals. It will be very expensive because it is worth a life - can you say the same about gold or silver?

Would you pay a pound of gold for a pound of meet if you were starving?

 

[Tacitus]

I don't prep assuming that there is 100% chance of a total apocalypse. I prep using a risk analysis. Let's measure Harm (the thing for which I prepare) on a scale of zero (no need to prep) to one (need to prep for everything). My Prepared Need (the need for which I actually prepare) is not 1 (a certain total apocalypse). Rather, my Prepared Need is defined as follows:

Prepared Need = Harm x Probability of the Harm​

If Harm = 1 (total apocalypse), and my assessed Probability of that Harm occurring is 100%, then my Prepared Need = 1 x 100% = 100%. So, I prepare for everything...100% of my needs.

But, if Harm = 1 (total apocalypse), but my assessed Probability of that Harm occurring is 25%, then my Prepared Need = 1 x 25% = 25%. So, I prepare for 25% of my needs in the event of a total apocalypse, and use the other 75% of my wealth to live my life assuming that there will be no apocalypse.

Let's assume that my assessed Probability of Harm is 25%, and I am already 25% prepared right now. If that Harm is realized (the dice are rolled, and it comes up apocalypse...my 25% future chance becomes a real 100% present event), I will obviously need more than 25% to survive. I will be in trouble.

So, I use PMs as a compromise prep in the mean time. I save a little extra, and I put it into PMs (because I believe it is a more secure preservation of wealth than dollars in the bank). I am hoping that as the apocalypse looms nearer (if it does), my awareness (being at a higher level than the awareness of typical non-preppers) will allow me to see that the percent chance of apocalypse has increased from 25% to, say, 50%. At that point, I can convert my PM's into cash, and then use that cash to increase my prep supplies appropriately, and become 50% prepared...and I will be able to do that without sacrificing my non-apocalyptic life, because I will have saved for it. If, on the other hand, the chance of apocalypse stays at 25%, I can take my PMs and use them to pay increased taxes, pay down debt, or buy a car, or buy my grandkids an education, or bribe my way out of the country (assuming WROL), or pay for elder care...I couldn't do any of those things if I had put my money into buckets of wheat instead of gold coins.

I can have some of those advantages if I just save mere cash. But, cash is subject to inflation. We've seen that government authorities don't have a problem increasing the money supply when it suits them. But, they cannot increase the PM supply. So, by keeping my wealth in the form of PMs, I protect it from government devaluation.

If your assessment of the probability of total apocalypse is 100%, or if you have prepared less than for your calculated Prepared Need, then my model would agree that PMs are a luxury at best.

 

[Caribou]

Precious metals will always have intrinsic value but when people have so little that food and water are the most valuable things in life the precious metals are only good to hold on to for when there is plenty again.
If I am the only guy for a fifty mile radius that has food enough to sell or trade, your gold and silver is lower in value than fuel and water. You see when life is hanging by a thread if what you have can't be eaten or drunk, provide fuel to boil water or cook food, or help in fighting disease then it is not worth much.
If I have more than I need to keep myself and my family healthy and happy then I might trade something for precious metals. It will be very expensive because it is worth a life - can you say the same about gold or silver?

Would you pay a pound of gold for a pound of meet if you were starving?

PM's are true money. Any commodity can be money. In Japan rice was considered money. A Koku was the amount of rice it took to feed one man for a year and was the standard of payment. Would I trade a pound of gold for a pound of meat? I wouldn't want to but my guess is that if I ever have a pound of gold I could find someone to provide me with a lot more food that a pound of meat. Today in Venezuela the farmers are not producing because the government is taking the food and paying them less that it cost to produce that food. My guess is that if I showed up at a farmers place with gold, or silver then I could get him to sell me quite a bit of food.

I'm not going to sell my food for gold but the farmer that wants to repair his equipment and buy fuel will. I'll sell ammo or trade my skills for PM's because I know that I can convert PM's into food. Throughout history gold has been a safe haven for our wealth.

 

[SheepDog]

Caribou,
I agree that gold and silver have historically been real money. So has salt, rice, and wheat. During the depression my grandfather bought a new Ford model A for 50 pounds of potatoes.
Anything that has true value, especially to life, is true money when it is needed. Money only has value when people need it. If there is no fuel to run equipment or fertilizer for fields farmers won't be able to produce much food, water will be in short supply, and your gold won't buy much. If you hang on to it until supplies return then it will again have the same value it had before. There have been and are circumstances where gold has little value compared to other commodities.

 

[Homesteader33]

Balance is key I believe, food, water and shelter are always primary but having some other things like PM's, lead (high velocity and the ability to aim said lead), tools, etc are all things that will have value under different circumstances. Stock your primary needs first then add to it with other items that might be of benefit under these circumstances. Just my $.02

 

[hiwall]

The new bank regulation has me spooked and I admit I bought some additional silver today.

 

[angie_nrs]

Silver has caught some traction the last few days. It's still not terribly high over what the "norm" has been the past few months. I talked to a financial advisor today who says he thinks PM's are in a really good spot right now to potentially rocket. We shall see.

Here's an interesting article that pretty much sums up what the advisor said:
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/s...year-plays-catch-up-to-golds-gains-2019-07-18

 

[lonewolf]

I could never see the point of PM's in a TEOTWAWKI situation, all currencies will go down after a few weeks and when they are viable again is anyone's guess, probably not for many years and probably not in most peoples lifetimes.
there seems to be this attitude on various preppers forums that everything will be okay post TEOTWAWKI after a few years, and that just isn't logical, Spock!!!

 

[SheepDog]

Until food is readily available precious metals will have little place in the market. Precious metals are in your stash to preserve your wealth and they should not be expected to have an advantage in purchasing power while food and water are in short supply. During the depression you could buy more goods (other than food) with a $5 sack of potatoes than you could with a pound of gold or jewelry. When people are barely staying alive they have no use for metals. You can't eat gold or silver.

 

[hiwall]

I could never see the point of PM's in a TEOTWAWKI situation, all currencies will go down after a few weeks and when they are viable again is anyone's guess, probably not for many years and probably not in most peoples lifetimes.
there seems to be this attitude on various preppers forums that everything will be okay post TEOTWAWKI after a few years, and that just isn't logical, Spock!!!

The only people who could buy anything in venezuela are the people who had PM's. Their paper money was/is worth zero. When Any paper currency collapses only tangible items have any value.

 

[SheepDog]

There is little to buy in Venezuela! There is little food regardless of what you can pay. There are no markets selling food and water is just as scarce. Everyone is just barely staying alive except for the government and military. Who has enough food and water to sell it to you?

 

[hiwall]

There is always a black market. Venezuela's government made gold illegal but it still has buying power with the black market.

 

[lonewolf]

and who sets the price? who says what your pm's are worth? a lot of scope for being ripped off and even robbed, or worse.
I bet nobody in VZ was a prepper prior to the collapse.

 

[hiwall]

and who sets the price? who says what your pm's are worth?

It's the same as it is now with paper money. You see something you want and YOU decide whether the asking price is worth it to you.

 

[lonewolf]

I wasn't talking about the asking price, I was talking about the value of the pm's, who sets the value post SHTF when there are no currency rules?

 

[angie_nrs]

I could never see the point of PM's in a TEOTWAWKI situation

I think it depends on the TEOTWAWKI situation you are referring to. If there's some sort of economic collapse, our currency might become worthless, but PM's will still hold value. There is a limited supply of PM's as opposed to cash. I think PM's are a good thing to have if you have cash that you want to hedge. In the past few years, I have traded cash for PM's. In the initial stages of an economic collapse, I'd certainly start getting rid of my cash on tangible items such as tools, food, etc. Then again, I try to prepare for any situation, including nothing out of the ordinary happening, which is why I have a little bit set aside of everything.

Also, the financial advisor I was speaking with was making the comments in relation to holding PM's in a retirement account. Typically PM's held in an account are a hedge against the markets going down, but he thinks the value of PM's is set to rise, so it could provide growth in your IRA when a recession/depression hits.

and who sets the price? who says what your pm's are worth? a lot of scope for being ripped off and even robbed, or worse.
I bet nobody in VZ was a prepper prior to the collapse.

Nothing you own is immune to theft. PM's (especially silver) is much more cumbersome to thieves than cash. If I were a thief, I'd much rather walk away with $10,000 in cash than silver. Any prep you have is subject to the difficulties of storage in one way or another, including food.
I'm sure there were preppers in VZ......the MSM just won't report on those folks who were prepared b/c it isn't the kind of news they want to push.

I view PM's as just another hedge against a situation that may or may not happen. It likely won't do me any good, but that's OK. It makes me feel better to have a little bit of it on hand, and that is worth something to me. Anything that I have that helps me sleep better at night is worth having. Someday perhaps my kids or grandkids will think I was an extremely wise woman......or maybe just a paranoid woman. LOL! Either way, I'm sure they won't mind having those physical assets if I never have to use them.

Here's some discussions we've had on PM's on the forum. There's some great points in there.....
https://www.homesteadingforum.org/threads/precious-metals.247/
https://www.homesteadingforum.org/threads/gold-and-silver.1547/#post-39669

 

[Caribou]

I wasn't talking about the asking price, I was talking about the value of the pm's, who sets the value post SHTF when there are no currency rules?

You do. If you have PM's you make an offer and they take it or make a counter offer. You come to an agreement or you don't. PM's melt but don't burn and floods don't destroy them. When you have all the food and other preps that you want then put some of your excess into money. PM's are money. We deal in currency today. Converting your currency into money is advisable. I've always heard that 5% to 10% of your assets should be PM's.

Currency is a relatively new creation where money has been used for thousands of years. Even today old Roman money is found in GB and around the world.

 

[hiwall]

I wasn't talking about the asking price, I was talking about the value of the pm's, who sets the value post SHTF when there are no currency rules?

You do. If you have PM's you make an offer and they take it or make a counter offer. You come to an agreement or you don't.

Caribou answered like I would have.
Value is the key word. It is best not to think of PM's worth x numbers of dollars or pounds. Those pounds or dollars only have any value if you say they do. They have no Real value. That is what the people in Venezuela found out about their currency. At some point in time paper money always becomes worthless. PM's never become worthless.

 

[angie_nrs]

At some point in time paper money always becomes worthless.

Which I believe is why our currency was initially tied to gold. After our gold standard was abolished, it put us right back on track for our currency to go to zero. It's just that most people haven't figured that out yet. Our currency only has value b/c people believe that it does. If people awaken to the fact that it's only paper backed by nothing, then Houston, we will have a problem. So basically, our currency is propped up only by the ignorance of the general populace. THAT's why I like to have PM's.

 

[lonewolf]

i'm packing supplies not currency, if the financial system collapses i'm not lugging gold bars about!

 

[hiwall]

i'm packing supplies not currency, if the financial system collapses i'm not lugging gold bars about!

Good idea! Any tangible items are a good investment.

 

[lonewolf]

I don't think currency be it coin, notes or silver bars will last long in a system collapse in the UK, couple of weeks maybe but no more.

 

[Caribou]

I don't think currency be it coin, notes or silver bars will last long in a system collapse in the UK, couple of weeks maybe but no more.

Silver is not currency, it is money. PM's are commodities just like corn or pork bellies except they don't rot or get eaten by rodents. PM's are a hedge against inflation and currency collapse.

Old Greek, Roman, or Chinese money still holds value even though the government that issued that money no longer exist. Venezuelan currency has no value.

Invest in food and TP or other commodities and use those for barter, I'm good with that. You should have that first. At a certain point I have run out of space for my preps and PM's don't take much space.

 

[SheepDog]

The key in being prepared is to have everything necessary for life, the means to protect it and yourself and then, after you have that, have the means to protect your wealth.
You need, in the order of importance, shelter, water, food, weapons and ammo. After all that is in order then, and only then, should you consider precious metals.
1. Shelter; a home or at least land that you have paid for and own outright. Anything else can be lost to the system.
2. Water; stored water and a source of fresh water to sustain you for the long term. A deep well that you own with a means to get the water to use it, a spring on your property that has potable water all year, or a rain catchment and the means to treat it.
3. Food; food that you will eat and enjoy that can be replaced once used. A garden with enough room to grow wheat in addition to fruits and veggies. Oats, rice and beans would be helpful but you also need meat. Cattle, goats, sheep, pigs, rabbits and chickens - whatever you have the room for. If you depend on natural game you will find that it will rapidly disappear with half the country killing it for food.
4. Weapons; This category, like food needs a bit of diversity and depends on your skills. A sling, slingshot, bow, or firearms all fit as long as you know how to use them. Firearms will require diversity too. A 22 rim fire pistol and/or rifle for quiet use on small game or pests, a shotgun (I recommend a pump action for use with many kinds of ammo) in 12 or 20 gauge (the two most available ammo), A pistol (more than one is better) in revolver action and magnum caliber, (you can use multiple loadings in the same gun - 38 special, 38 special +P, 357 magnum and less powerful loads as well as loads in the middle). Semi automatic pistols in 45 or 9mm caliber (the most common calibers) are often called better because of the capacity but it depends on your ability to shoot. If you need to have more ammo in order to hit your target then you need practice not a bigger gun. 1 good shot with a 38 special is better than 3 misses and a chance hit with a 9mm or 45 ACP. You need a hunting rifle. Something that can quickly dispatch the biggest game animal or the most dangerous animal in your area. I suggest 308 caliber as it will do the job in most areas (Alaska may require more) and it is the most available ammo in the USA. (your location may be different). This hunting rifle should be a quality bolt action rifle with good accuracy that you can shoot well. You can add to this list any number of other arms. If you are good with a sling shot or a sling or a bow then add that to your inventory. If you feel the need to have a "battle" rifle then the AR platform has something (or multiple somethings to fit your needs) ** A note on semi-auto pistols and rifles: Be sure to stock multiple wear parts and parts that are prone to failure. Just run a search on Glock parts failure to see what I mean. The AR is a good platform but also has multiple suggestions for replacement parts. Have them stored and know how to replace them. You will also need extra magazines - they too fail or get lost. You should have at least three years of ammo for each of your guns. You will also need spare bands for your slingshot and slings along with a three year supply of ball. If you have a bow you will need spare strings, lots of arrows and arrow heads (and know how to make and maintain them).
This brings us to tools. The tools you need are determined by the equipment that you have and what you know how to repair and maintain. You will need a couple of shovels, hoe, rakes, axes, hatchets and knives. The most common household tools are pliers, wire cutters, hammers, and screwdrivers with different tips (straight, phillips, star/torx and hex/allen) along with a good set of wrenches and socket sets are what I consider the basics.
Hygiene Requires wash cloths, towels, soap and basic medical gear. You can make this as simple or as complicated as you decide is necessary. Toilet paper is one of those extras that are nice to have but there are easy and durable ways around it. Women, if you are still of an age that requires monthly protection you can decide best how you want to handle it. My trauma kit has some feminine hygiene products in it for different reasons but having a three year supply for personal use won't take up a lot of space.

This is by no means an extensive list nor is it a required minimum for everyone. It is just a list of some of the items less talked about that I feel are necessary for me.

 

[hiwall]

Of course there is always two ways to look at everything. In this case there is at least three ways.

1. Your only plan for the future is to invest in stocks and bonds to insure your retirement.
2. Your only plan is to prep for the future with food and supplies.
3. Your only plan is to stock pile precious metals at home to insure for your future.

Any of these could be the correct thing to do. Or some mix of two or three of those things. No one knows the future.
Maybe there is a fourth choice too. 4. Do nothing and plan on the government to take care of you.

 

[Bacpacker]

Of course there is always two ways to look at everything. In this case there is at least three ways.

1. Your only plan for the future is to invest in stocks and bonds to insure your retirement.
2. Your only plan is to prep for the future with food and supplies.
3. Your only plan is to stock pile precious metals at home to insure for your future.

Any of these could be the correct thing to do. Or some mix of two or three of those things. No one knows the future.
Maybe there is a fourth choice too. 4. Do nothing and plan on the government to take care of you.

My take is a mix of all three. I also think SheepDogs post just above is very spot on as well.