Unique Trade Goods

[Mountain trapper]

I hate yellow jackets about the same as I hate grasshoppers.

This year we have an abundance of both. They're eating the garden.

 

[Dracos]

The ugly little *******s (grasshoppers) are not content to eat their fill. They will get on a a plant and chew through through the stalk near the ground. Then the whole plant will fall over. I have one sunflower left. I tried planting two garlic plants with every tomato. Maybe it works or maybe I'm lucky.

 

[lonewolf]

Nobody is capable of having everything necessary for life after SHTF. Eventually trade will become necessary for long term survival. I'm talking about after our personal stores run low in 3, 5, 10 years after SHTF. Most everyone here can get by just fine for a year or two, but not for long term. Eventually shoes wear out, socks and clothing will rot away tools wear out or break, a couple years of bad crops and seeds will run low, hygiene products and medicines run out or go bad. The list is endless. No question about it, trade will be vital.

the trouble with that argument is if YOUR supplies have run down and out in 3,5,10 years so will everyone else's!
I do not understand this attitude of expecting someone else to have things or skills we personally lack.
if someone cant repair or make new then they will have to learn to live without them. trying to live a modern life in a post apocalypse world is not going to be possible, adapting to the new "normal" is imperative, not doing so will mean failure, failure means death.

 

[Proud Prepper]

the trouble with that argument is if YOUR supplies have run down and out in 3,5,10 years so will everyone else's!
I do not understand this attitude of expecting someone else to have things or skills we personally lack.
if someone cant repair or make new then they will have to learn to live without them. trying to live a modern life in a post apocalypse world is not going to be possible, adapting to the new "normal" is imperative, not doing so will mean failure, failure means death.

The one key word that everyone should agree with is adapt, everyone must be able to adapt.

 

[Amish Heart]

Adapt and learn how to produce.

 

[Dracos]

History repeats itself. Reading a journal from a distant ancestor (I don't know how many greats). I don't think he would have near as much trouble adapting to our time as I would to his. He was from Wales. He had some assets apparently and acquired land in Virginia. Now West Virginia. The year is about 1740. He had a blacksmith shop and apparently a foundry. I think he actually melted iron with coal and a bellows of some sort. I would love to be able to do that. His cash crops were cotton and tobacco. He also grew many crops for feeding the plantation. He owned cattle, pigs, sheep, and chickens. I'm not sure what sorgum is but apparently they made some sort of alcohol from it and distilled it on the property. There were trees and some sort of lumber operation. He also traveled somewhere to get salt peter. Probably to make a crude gunpowder. Horses were very important as was the skill of building wagons.
In the not to distant future I see us relearning what he knew. And maybe something else. What happened to him? As near as we can figure he took a ship back to Wales with a box of gold to bring his family to America. He was robbed and murdered and thrown overboard. His family inherited his holdings. My family still owns a small piece.
I would rather own a plantation than starve to death with a bug out bag. You need a large piece of land to make it without technology.

 

[Mountain trapper]

the trouble with that argument is if YOUR supplies have run down and out in 3,5,10 years so will everyone else's!
I do not understand this attitude of expecting someone else to have things or skills we personally lack.
if someone cant repair or make new then they will have to learn to live without them. trying to live a modern life in a post apocalypse world is not going to be possible, adapting to the new "normal" is imperative, not doing so will mean failure, failure means death.

We've had trade in this world since the beginning of time. I don't see any reason why it wouldn't happen again. Of course it will take time, and of course people will need to adept. Each place is different. I'm not concerned about what its going to be like in other areas. I'm only concerned about where my family is. I know that most people will want to live as normal a life as possible. Why wouldn't they? I prefer to be more optimistic than some.

 

[lonewolf]

"Normal" life WTSHTF will not be normal, not the normal anyone knew before and trying to live a similar type of lifestyle after the collapse is doomed to failure.
trading may be possible in a functioning democracy but after a national or global catastrophe much of the trading material will be lost or destroyed, trading will not be possible or safe for many decades until some form of functioning community has arisen, until then it will be a case of looking after "number one".
this is my problem, survival post collapse will be different in Britain than it will in the US, conditions are different and people are different and trying to explain that to someone who dosent live here can result in misunderstandings.

 

[Amish Heart]

I think if you trade now in a very small community, that trading will be important and continue. But only in your community. Not outside trading, not at a big trading place or even in a farmer's market.
Our amish neighbor will be hosting church for their district on their farm in a few weeks. She brought me sweet corn and green beans and asked for 10 dz eggs for when it's church time for their lunch meal sandwiches. I do that now and I'd do it after SHTF.

 

[lonewolf]

I do wish we had Amish neighbours in the UK, I think there is so much we Brits could learn from them.

 

[Mountain trapper]

"Normal" life WTSHTF will not be normal, not the normal anyone knew before and trying to live a similar type of lifestyle after the collapse is doomed to failure.
trading may be possible in a functioning democracy but after a national or global catastrophe much of the trading material will be lost or destroyed, trading will not be possible or safe for many decades until some form of functioning community has arisen, until then it will be a case of looking after "number one".
this is my problem, survival post collapse will be different in Britain than it will in the US, conditions are different and people are different and trying to explain that to someone who dosent live here can result in misunderstandings.

I said "normal AS possible". A person could be living in a tent but they will still try living as best they can. Of course everything would be different. Thats a no-brainer. People will try to make the best life possible, which will eventually include trading. I think in many parts of the country trading will begin almost immediately. In many parts of the country people already do a lot of trading. Once the shock of a devastating SHTF is over people will start coming together for trading and mutual protection. They always have.
Not everyone are hermits and hates everyone else.

 

[lonewolf]

I said "normal AS possible". A person could be living in a tent but they will still try living as best they can. Of course everything would be different. Thats a no-brainer. People will try to make the best life possible, which will eventually include trading. I think in many parts of the country trading will begin almost immediately. In many parts of the country people already do a lot of trading. Once the shock of a devastating SHTF is over people will start coming together for trading and mutual protection. They always have.
Not everyone are hermits and hates everyone else.

what people "will start coming together", most of the sheeple population will be dead or dying, there just wont be anyone near enough to trade with and most that survive will have just what they stand up in, no extras to trade with, nothing.
I've seen it so many times before, a national catastrophic event happens and people are left with nothing, most of them only survive because the red cross and other agencies fly in supplies which wont happen WTSHTF.

 

[DrHenley]

Now admit it bigpaul, a lot of this is wishful thinking. You've often said there are too many people on Earth. You WANT something to wipe out 90% of the population.

 

[lonewolf]

Now admit it bigpaul, a lot of this is wishful thinking. You've often said there are too many people on Earth. You WANT something to wipe out 90% of the population.

the earth is well past its carrying capacity, when something bad happens in the UK and imports arent possible we can only feed about 25% of the current population from the land mass available, its not a matter of wanting it to happen its inevitable.
its not wishful thinking its a simple fact.
its a case of stating the bleeding obvious and I dont know why some people cant see it, maybe its too awful for them to contemplate so they think it can never happen.

 

[Amish Heart]

In the US, the Red Cross and FEMA take days and days to arrive. That is always a fact during tornado and hurricane season. I wouldn't count on them around the US. Count on your community and be ready to help

 

[Amish Heart]

I always wondered why England didn't learn after the War. They were stuck in the same situation with most of their food being imported and had a bad time feeding their own, even nationalizing their people's own farms for production. So why go back to that same mess now?

 

[lonewolf]

In the US, the Red Cross and FEMA take days and days to arrive. That is always a fact during tornado and hurricane season. I wouldn't count on them around the US. Count on your community and be ready to help

same over here, usually a case of too little too late.

 

[lonewolf]

I always wondered why England didn't learn after the War. They were stuck in the same situation with most of their food being imported and had a bad time feeding their own, even nationalizing their people's own farms for production. So why go back to that same mess now?

I think globalism and big business got in the way.
of course in 1973 we joined the "common market" which morphed into the EU in the early 1990s. we were lied to by politicians...again and have only just managed to get out recently.

 

[Amish Heart]

I don't get how globalism got in the way. Explain that. I know if America ever shut itself off, no import or export, we would do ok with our resources. I don't know that England is used to producing what they need, and they had to become capable of that during wartime. Is it because the population is too far gone compared to possible resources?

 

[lonewolf]

well the Industrial Revolution started in Britain in the mid 1700s and we had factories all over the place, but over the 20th century we have turned into a service and financial nation only and lots of the old companies that made stuff have been sold off to foreign companies, many other commodities became too expensive to produce and it was easier to import stuff from "sweat" economies who could make it cheaper.
we are 61% self sufficient in food but unfortunately that is not enough to feed the ever growing population.
something has to give.

 

[DrHenley]

its not wishful thinking its a simple fact.
its a case of stating the bleeding obvious and I dont know why some people cant see it, maybe its too awful for them to contemplate so they think it can never happen.

What I'm getting at bigpaul is that a COMPLETE lack of trade or barter will insure a rapid die-off. And that would be just fine by you.
A lot of people are stupid, I'll grant you, but they aren't THAT stupid.

 

[lonewolf]

What I'm getting at bigpaul is that a COMPLETE lack of trade or barter will insure a rapid die-off. And that would be just fine by you.
A lot of people are stupid, I'll grant you, but they aren't THAT stupid.

there will be a rapid die off anyway post SHTF, here especially as we import so much stuff and that will cease WTSHTF. we dont have enough trades and skills, apart from computer skills, for enough people to survive to trade afterwards, it just wont happen.
maybe it will be different in the US, I dont know, but I know it wont happen here.

 

[Amish Heart]

My original question is that England found themselves in deep doo doo in the 1940's wartime. Alot of the food was imported. Hitler was bombing, so not many boats with goods got in. Farmers were told what and how to produce, and if they didn't, their farms were nationalized by the govt. Still it was a squeek by. Canning was learned, growing of foods, rabbit and chicken raising. A huge crash course back then. So now...with more people, and England is still importing most of their food? Why didn't they learn? 80 yrs ago almost did them in with the supply chain cut off.

 

[lonewolf]

My original question is that England found themselves in deep doo doo in the 1940's wartime. Alot of the food was imported. Hitler was bombing, so not many boats with goods got in. Farmers were told what and how to produce, and if they didn't, their farms were nationalized by the govt. Still it was a squeek by. Canning was learned, growing of foods, rabbit and chicken raising. A huge crash course back then. So now...with more people, and England is still importing most of their food? Why didn't they learn? 80 yrs ago almost did them in with the supply chain cut off.

yes and most of that war generation are now dead, my parents amongst them.
modern generations here are 4 times removed from the land and dont have a clue, most are stupid and have no idea how bad things are.
if they did the whole country would be preppers but we are in the 1% minority.
most people here think nothing bad will happen, the pandemic should have shaken them out of their composure but all they did was panic buy and bitch and moan, modern people are so stupid.

 

[Nomad13]

Toilet Paper

 

[M0del_31]

My original question is that England found themselves in deep doo doo in the 1940's wartime. Alot of the food was imported. Hitler was bombing, so not many boats with goods got in. Farmers were told what and how to produce, and if they didn't, their farms were nationalized by the govt. Still it was a squeek by. Canning was learned, growing of foods, rabbit and chicken raising. A huge crash course back then. So now...with more people, and England is still importing most of their food? Why didn't they learn? 80 yrs ago almost did them in with the supply chain cut off.

And by the end of the war, UK had worn out their dirt. Yields were falling and rationing was tight as ever. The UK has been unable to support itself in wartime since they quit running a wood boat navy.

 

[Illini Warrior]

My original question is that England found themselves in deep doo doo in the 1940's wartime. Alot of the food was imported. Hitler was bombing, so not many boats with goods got in. Farmers were told what and how to produce, and if they didn't, their farms were nationalized by the govt. Still it was a squeek by. Canning was learned, growing of foods, rabbit and chicken raising. A huge crash course back then. So now...with more people, and England is still importing most of their food? Why didn't they learn? 80 yrs ago almost did them in with the supply chain cut off.

food rationing didn't end with WW2 and 1945 - because Britain's pre-War sources of food supply got crunched - rationing continued until the early 1950s - and it was almost worldwide in that post-war period ....

 

[MOS0231]

I have read Bic lighters are good trade goods.

But, post-SHTF, I think steel and flint either modern types (e.g. Blast Matches) or the old style will eventually become the norm and a Bic lighter be more of a novelty.

I heat with wood, so lighting a fire in a confined space with one match is a daily event.

 

[lonewolf]

food rationing didn't end with WW2 and 1945 - because Britain's pre-War sources of food supply got crunched - rationing continued until the early 1950s - and it was almost worldwide in that post-war period ....

rationing ended in 1953.

 

[user 6493]

trading and bartering,,, why are we talking about this???? many here think we will see a massive die off,possibly 75% or more,and people will spread out there will be some clusters but not many,,,,land homes and livestock abandoned and there for the taking,,,, it is not looting if the people are gone