A serious Question about having greater Empathy and Compassion for "PREPPERS" who are failing then "NON"-Preppers, post SHTF....???

[TexasCharm]

We live in a "neighborhood" consisting of 5 - 10 acre lots. One way in and one way out.. by vehicle. Most of the folks that have moved in in the last 3-4 years or so have done so because of what they see going on in the world. Most have gardens and chickens, etc. I would like to think that we would close ranks and work together, but the fact is that during a crisis I think most people will be looking after themselves. My immediate neighbors are on the same page and that small group would, at least, close ranks.

Who we help, would have to come on a case by case basis. Considering, of course, that WE might need help.

It's going to be the wild wild west.. for sure.

 

[ssonb]

There are two people so far that have offered and I counter offered that in case of unforseen reasons their locations were lost that there is a refuge for them at my place and me to theirs.
None of these decisions are made lightly but each of us has skills and resources to bring even if we show up with just a half empty day pack and rifle.
Unfortunately one of us health has collapsed and in a show of honour has released me from the promise I fully intended to keep.

 

[lonewolf]

unfortunately there are a lot of people over here who call themselves preppers who are nothing but food hoarders.

 

[TexasCharm]

unfortunately there are a lot of people over here who call themselves preppers who are nothing but food hoarders.

So what, if anything, will you do to help some of these people in a crisis?

 

[Magus]

I think Sour just needs to hang out here more and realize some people are worth helping if you can.
I was as bad as him when I signed up if not worse. My "help" would have been a bullet in the head and taking your stuff. Being around good people brings out the good in you. I may not be able to stash much, but I can share what a lifetime of doing this has taught me, and if what I know saves or helps just one, it makes me happy. Sure, I may be a creepy old crippled hermit, but I'm still alive in here somewhere, I might even still have a soul, but if you need to know how to make simple water filters and where to find clean dirt for your fallout-free greenhouse, just ask. I might know other things as well. All the nitrogen-packed cracked wheat on earth is useless if you have to eat it alone.
I know, I lived most of my life that way.

 

[lonewolf]

So what, if anything, will you do to help some of these people in a crisis?

not a damn thing. they arent preppers.

 

[Magus]

I'd point out places to get yard salad and how to filter water, tell them about the vitamin C goodness of that white under-bark of a pine tree, and I might even share my infamous peanut butter gruel. It's actually good and costs so little to make, then shoo them off unless they're willing to contribute to MY cause. NOW then, if they've come to freeload, they'll make good jerky to sell/give the next bunch.

 

[lonewolf]

a lot of people seem to think that a stockpile of food is "job done", well I suppose it is if they are only "prepping" for short term events, a few days , a week, a month.
its still more hoarding than prepping. and its very short sighted.

 

[ssonb]

Don't feed the wolf.... Just let it go.

 

[lonewolf]

Don't feed the wolf.... Just let it go.

excuse me!! lost in translation.

 

[user 7404]

This is a good moral question. Let's keep God and religion out of it and call it human nature. Past experience of helping people I have learned that it is usually counterproductive, people forget "favors" quickly, once they get what they want or need. Desperate people will take what you have, by whatever means they have to, be it selfishness or trying to protect "their" loved ones. Either way, prepping should be kept secretive and discussed only with family members and maybe very close friends who agree and participate in prepping. I have also learned that trying to talk to some people about prepping they think I am an extremist and have some rather negative viewpoints so I have learned to keep my mouth shut, as these are the same people who will come to take what you have because they would then know where to go to take or steal what THEY need. So, to answer the question; "would I help people", NO! Desperation makes human nature violent and dangerous.

 

[Canon29]

Why should I have greater empathy & compassion for preppers who "failed" over non-preppers.

Try to keep religion out of this thread, as I would prefer it stayed in prepping, and NOT get moved to Religion forum.

Because as a rule we reward effort and the character it shows and fosters. I have more respect for somewho who tried and failed than someone who denied possibilities that didn't fit their comfort zone and did not try at all.

If I see two men- one who put real effort into protecting his loved ones and one who took that same effort and spent it on himself I know which one I'd rather work with or invest in.

Failure is fine, we ALL fail sometimes. I want to know who is willing to risk failure and actually try. Only those people can succeed.

 

[elkhound]

recent thread of survival story i done has some interesting points. the two guys did get saved by others....even though the aboriginals had been being killed off by others and even during search and rescue for them some got chained up because authorities thought they had killed the two men...how outrageous from those in charge ,...anyway one of the men just couldnt handle the stress of the situation and lost his mind and became delusional and never recovered from it and spent rest of life locked away. the pilot went back to plane with fuel and parts and fixed plane and flew it out the place. he went on to live a full and very interesting life.

https://www.homesteadingforum.org/threads/1932-kimberley-rescue-story-of-survival.36482/

what about this as well..an aging population? do you help elderly guy you known for a lifetime...do you let him starve or die in days over no drinking water...what about someone with down syndrome or mild retardation...i have a cousin like that and has lived a life of survival. living in a tiny little home and driving only a scooter and on very little money...ssi...thank god his home is paid for...in fact the very reason he has a roof over his head is because my grandfather bought the place in 1930's and lived there for awhile and then gave it to his grandmother...my grandfathers sister and it has housed them all till their deaths and my cousin since birth and now almost 60...so my grandfathers compassion and sacrifice has given and given and given far after his death. he gave home to them in about 1950 or just before. he died in 1987 yet still his gift housed family and feed them by not paying rent freeing up money for food.its a tiny old home..its basically the old shotgun houses from back in the day.

how could i not take cousin a big bucket of cooked pintos and pan of cornbread? i hope to see my grandfather again one day..i couldnt look him in the eye if shtf and know i let cousin starve after all he(grandfather) had done in one small gesture of gifting a tiny home and half acre of land.

 

[user 7404]

Yes! It would be very saddening to see people, friends and especially people with disabilities have to suffer in extreme times, and I hope it never happens. However, nature (even God) can be very cruel, and if a disaster ever strikes, then nature will naturally weed out the weak and unprepared ones of us. It's just a fact and yes hard to swallow, but in order of self-preservation this would have to be accepted. Maybe I am wrong, I don't know and will only know the day I stand before my maker.

 

[elkhound]

to be clear..i can cull others from my life and have already done it in fact...! kinship is not a free pass!

 

[EastenerWesterner]

In a crisis situation you learn about people. Last years atmospheric rivers dumping rain, our road was day to day with trees, mud and rockslides. 4 1/2 mile dead end road, first house at 3 miles with 3 different fire road for evacuation.

My tractor was set up for moving trees and I moved a few. One fell that was a triple trunk and I said call the county. One neighbor got upset with me because it was too big for me.

Next Dippy Do told everyone they couldn’t access the fire road across her property (we have deeded right to) Another that was in town wanted me to feed her animals, I couldn’t get past her dogs.

After 2 weeks of this, I know which 3/12 neighbors I will help in the future.

 

[Tirediron]

This is a good moral question. Let's keep God and religion out of it and call it human nature. Past experience of helping people I have learned that it is usually counterproductive, people forget "favors" quickly, once they get what they want or need. Desperate people will take what you have, by whatever means they have to, be it selfishness or trying to protect "their" loved ones. Either way, prepping should be kept secretive and discussed only with family members and maybe very close friends who agree and participate in prepping. I have also learned that trying to talk to some people about prepping they think I am an extremist and have some rather negative viewpoints so I have learned to keep my mouth shut, as these are the same people who will come to take what you have because they would then know where to go to take or steal what THEY need. So, to answer the question; "would I help people", NO! Desperation makes human nature violent and dangerous.

This information should be required reading and comprehension tested before anyone thinks that they are "Ready to be Ready"

 

[LadyLocust]

i bet if you look at survival numbers across time and go with percentages the highest percentage would be non preppers...why..just by sheer volume alone...a minority is just that..a minority....soooo...i am not saying dont keep stuff ready..just looking at history...people that lived were the survivalist..because they survived...how and whys vary greatly too....does someone who begged meals and survive are less than someone who had a huge storehouse full...both survived by their own 'means and ability' didnt they?

there once was this big shot guy...he got over run by barbarians he looked down on...he ran for his life..he came upon a woman and forced her to feed him...he may or may not done something else..she cooked a big meal and fed him...what happens after a big meal and you are tired..he fell asleep...he woke up later to his own demise as the woman drove the tent spike through his ear and into the ground.

moral of story...cooking skill and camping skill...pounding tent stakes trumped warrior skills...just saying..may or may not be relevant to thread..but i think it is,...who survives...time will tell..along with situations.

Not disagreeing, but would like to point out simply because it's not apples to apples: historically folks knew that milk came from cows and carrots grow in the dirt etc. People today are so far removed from the source of their sustenance that they don't even know the most basic principles. Given that, l do believe a larger % of "them" will perish.

 

[Magus]

I'm still wondering what everyone is "ready" for. If you're not already living in a deep bunker with a million-gallon aquifer and 10 years' worth of food, you're not ready, no one here is "ready" we're in the process of "getting ready", the process never ends. and if the guys in the bunker have a major polar shift, they're buried alive too. No one is ever ready. we stockpile some stuff and hope for the best.

 

[Caribou]

I can’t support everyone. Should I decide to help someone their prepping will have little to do with my decision.

 

[Biggkidd]

Some of us already have been living as if it happened for years. Because in our own ways it DID! I lost my ability to walk and talk or write 4/14/05. Had teach my body to do those things again over the next few years. This homestead is WHY I am doing as well as I am it not only let me raise my kids but also to teach them all the while being my rehab.

 

[teeceetx]

Just my thoughts on this:

One must "prep" for what one see's as the future. What will happen? A short term government disruption? A complete collapse of government? A complete collapse of the economy? Nuclear war? Invasion? Or perhaps something a bit less.

In nearly every scenario, food will become scarce, as will water. Medical help will be nearly non-existent, as will drugs and medications. There will be few if any supply chains operating, so essentially nothing will be available to purchase. Bartering will replace purchasing, and even then, items will become harder and harder to obtain. I'd imagine groups/gangs would form, and go out looking for supplies, ready to take from whomever has something to take from. It's likely they will kill anyone they come across. In the event of a nuclear war, then few will survive, crops would fail, and water and soil might likely be contaminated.

As was pointed out, the difference between non-prepped and fully prepped, will likely be a matter of months, not years. Many will die, but there will always be a few who will survive, regardless.

One's first responsibility is to themselves and their family. Then after that, one may help others, based on their resources.

So one has to decide for themselves, what is it they are prepping for?

330 million people cannot successfully prep for any of this. There are far few resources available. The population will have to drop dramatically in order for the remaining to be able to live "off the land" so to speak.

 

[old tex]

Why should I have greater empathy & compassion for preppers who "failed" over non-preppers.

I really don't understand why the question would come up. Each person picks what they find interesting to comment on. Nobody forces you to comment on or even read a certain post. Why would I post something negative on someone's post who didn't succeed on what they were trying to do? Would it be to hurt their feelings? Why would I want to do that?

Back when I believed that a lot of people had tin hats on posts (somewhere else btw) I never did anything like that. I'm glad because more and more of those tin hat theories seems to not only be possible but have come true. Back then I wouldn't have believed that some rich person had an island where he traded sexual favors of underage minors to big wigs, many of whom were politicians. Or that he would be arrested & somehow kill himself while in jail with 2 guards on duty & the video tape of the cell somehow wasn't working. THAT is tin hat stuff & yet........

 

[d_marsh]

I don't really like the term prepper. Nor do I liked being grouped in with others who may or may not be anything like me or do what I do or know what I know. In the end I believe survival always starts with luck. A tornado rips through a community in Oklahoma and wipes out 100 houses, does it matter which house was full of supplies and which one wasn't? A man with a rifle walks into Walmart and starts firing. Who gets shot and who doesn't is all random. I could drone on and on with examples. Your luck runs out when your luck runs out. But I also believe luck favors the prepared. Prepared to run, prepared to fight, prepared to live, prepared to die.

 

[Magus]

Some of us already have been living as if it happened for years. Because in our own ways it DID! I lost my ability to walk and talk or write 4/14/05. Had teach my body to do those things again over the next few years. This homestead is WHY I am doing as well as I am it not only let me raise my kids but also to teach them all the while being my rehab.

Ditto. My life will not change much, I live like I prep, and that's fairly rough.

 

[Magus]

Where is OP? it's not like him to roll a grenade down the dinner table and not hang around to admire the chaos.

 

[Neb]

Why should I have greater empathy & compassion for preppers who "failed" over non-preppers.

Try to keep religion out of this thread, as I would prefer it stayed in prepping, and NOT get moved to Religion forum.

No fair changing the question after I replied.

Ben

 

[randyt]

No you should not. You should take whatever action that increases your chance of survival

 

[Old Whatshisname]

Why should I have greater empathy & compassion for preppers who "failed" over non-preppers.

Try to keep religion out of this thread, as I would prefer it stayed in prepping, and NOT get moved to Religion forum.

I view (and this is just my opinion) "empathy" and "compassion" as parameters which don't have an intrinsic payback.

If you're empathetic, you can understand or "pick up on" another person's emotions or feelings. If you're compassionate, you don't necessarily expect a payment. Your compassion might be driven by your religionist tendencies, or just because you understand he's a human like you, so you each see yourselves in the other (somewhat). I kind of like that philosophy; call it "karma" if you choose.

That doesn't mean that I can't (and won't) make transactionally-driven decisions; we humans usually each have something the other wants. Trading -- one way or another -- is a good thing, if you'd like to retain even a bit of civilization after the hard times come.

My belief is when things get dicey and you find that you have a lot of power (e.g., food, water, shelter) over others, your decision on whom to aid will be based on a combination of the two.

 

[user 7404]

I view (and this is just my opinion) "empathy" and "compassion" as parameters which don't have an intrinsic payback.

If you're empathetic, you can understand or "pick up on" another person's emotions or feelings. If you're compassionate, you don't necessarily expect a payment. Your compassion might be driven by your religionist tendencies, or just because you understand he's a human like you, so you each see yourselves in the other (somewhat). I kind of like that philosophy; call it "karma" if you choose.

That doesn't mean that I can't (and won't) make transactionally-driven decisions; we humans usually each have something the other wants. Trading -- one way or another -- is a good thing, if you'd like to retain even a bit of civilization after the hard times come.

My belief is when things get dicey and you find that you have a lot of power (e.g., food, water, shelter) over others, your decision on whom to aid will be based on a combination of the two.

This is another thoughtful viewpoint. To be realistic; when things get dicey that is the time to bunker down and survive with what you have prepared for. Once the dust has settled, sort of speaking, only then will I stick my head out and maybe expose myself and take an assessment of the surroundings and anyone left standing. Yes, trading with others can be a good thing, but even then, caution towards empathy and compassion has to be kept in check as some people will strategically play on that to get what THEY want. It happens now, every day, and will happen more so post-SHTF. Deep down we want to help our fellow man (survivor), however, this would be the time to swallow hard and stay hard for the sake of staying safe. Maybe, as time passes and nature heals what has been destroyed, be it the environment or people, only then can we look at possibly re-building society, and only then can empathy and compassion play its role. This is Just my viewpoint and trying to stay real about this prepping and surviving aspect.