Anyone had group of 100+ for more than 10 years?

[Jim Costa]

Our activation plan regarding meals is to feed the arrivals meat dinners the first few days using frozen meats.
The purpose is to fill their bellies and to calm them from the panic times and change of address.
After that we will go to one meal dinners so there is no waste.

In order to give a break, one night a week individuals can come draw supplies for a small private dinner with select friends or family.
This gives all of us a break.

But overall, let me set the eating arrangements.
First we will canvass for unusual needs of meals and try to accommodate.

Secondly, we have a few different food plans. Everyone here is to provide their own food. We hope it is similar supplies to what others have done so we can easily have group meals.

But some began to show up with long term stored foods in buckets.
Some planned to eat separate from the git go.
Others came in as cheap as possible (just beans and rice).

Therefore, we will have most members in a common meal with some smaller groups cooking for themselves.
We have three cooking kitchens.

"But Jim, this is not fair" some will say. Each family picks and chooses their food options freely. It is their choice. They must live with it.
Our main rule is food belongs to the one that brought it. We will keep records on group consumption in group meals.

When their supplies run out they will be moved to a house on our border so we can support them in all manner except food.

P.S. Individuals can share their food supplies with others if they themselves choose to.



.

 

[Dave V]

Our activation plan regarding meals is to feed the arrivals meat dinners the first few days using frozen meats.
The purpose is to fill their bellies and to calm them from the panic times and change of address.
After that we will go to one meal dinners so there is no waste.

In order to give a break, one night a week individuals can come draw supplies for a small private dinner with select friends or family.
This gives all of us a break.

But overall, let me set the eating arrangements.
First we will canvass for unusual needs of meals and try to accommodate.

Secondly, we have a few different food plans. Everyone here is to provide their own food. We hope it is similar supplies to what others have done so we can easily have group meals.

But some began to show up with long term stored foods in buckets.
Some planned to eat separate from the git go.
Others came in as cheap as possible (just beans and rice).

Therefore, we will have most members in a common meal with some smaller groups cooking for themselves.
We have three cooking kitchens.

"But Jim, this is not fair" some will say. Each family picks and chooses their food options freely. It is their choice. They must live with it.
Our main rule is food belongs to the one that brought it. We will keep records on group consumption in group meals.

When their supplies run out they will be moved to a house on our border so we can support them in all manner except food.

P.S. Individuals can share their food supplies with others if they themselves choose to.

Jim,
Yours is a very different approach from ours. but it makes sense. It looks like you are melding the skills and protection a group provides together with family independence. Everyone works together but each family unit is responsible for providing for themselves.

In our group, everyone has job(s) to do for the group and in exchange, we provide for each other. So, your family may be assisting the cooks tonight in the kitchen or cleaning up after dinner tonight. Tomorrow another family will do the same (each time learning new cooking skills together as a family.) In exchange for this and whatever else your family has as their stewardships, you eat EVERY meal with the group and get to choose from whatever is being cooked that meal. The group, bulk buys, preserves, and stores all of our food and drinks. You are welcome to stock your living quarters with whatever food and drink you want, but no one overstocks because they know if something catastrophic happens and we have no food, we would go get food or hunt for it. Regardless, we're all better off and safer together than apart.

Different group, different facilities, different philosophies. It's all good !

 

[Dave V]

We are selling our LPG Toyota 7FGCU60 Forklift and have already purchased a Toyota electric THDE2000-24 to eliminate inside carbon monoxide emissions. The electric is already in use, but it may take a while to sell the old one. We don't need 4. The new electric is used primarily to rotate the pallets of different type foods from the grocery to the facility and back to the grocery (frequently cans.) The rotation is sort of like the rolling can system you might have so that you eat the oldest first, except with full pallets instead of single cans. This latest stay by about 50 extra people we hadn't planned on meant breaking into some of our pallets to be rotated, so rather than rotate them "broken" we just bought new cases to replace the partials and re-wrapped the pallets. We'll use the partials mixed into the menu for the permanent residents for the next couple of weeks and everything will be hunky-dory. After this evening's news, we're already getting requests to move back in and reconvene the school inside the facility, so we'll be watching the Ukraine situation closely this weekend. I hope they de-escalate, but hope is not a plan.

 

[Dave V]

Yes, we use gravity fed pallet racks like this, so the forklifts load on one end and remove from the other end. (Labels sanitized, sorry!) So, our rack depth and the shelf life of the pallet's contents limits how many years' worth of food we can store in pallets. Racks are 3 pallets high and modular, so we could add to the depth if we drag the whole unit forward to maintain the loading lane. By carefully monitoring lot dates, we are able to rotate the pallets back into the store stock without significantly affecting our grocery customer's product shelf life, but it virtually eliminates stale dating at the facility.

 

[Dave V]

It was probably a fruitless presidential call with Putin today.

 

[Dave V]

Gold is down, Bitcoin is up...go figure?!
Great group meetings this morning. Folks are nervous but calm.
Great supper tonight, very smooth so far considering the number of people inside!

Best cooks ever! Great meal, talk and laughter sounded almost like a roar as you approached mess hall. Lots of "I'll show you mine if you show me yours" - holstered pistols came out at the supper tables. A couple got dropped to the floor. Lots of gritted teeth. Newbies make me nervous...too much enthusiasm.

 

[DrHenley]

Gold was manipulated down. Bitcoin doesn't have a true ETF yet so they can't short paper Bitcoin like they short paper gold.

 

[EastenerWesterner]

Your op sounds like it could supply a couple small stores. Wonderful way to keep a rotation.

 

[Dave V]

Your op sounds like it could supply a couple small stores. Wonderful way to keep a rotation.

For sure we could easily stock a couple of stores! By using my fairly large grocery next door as our rotation source, our facility stock is regularly rotated back into the grocery...like apples for apples, except its mostly identical pallets of canned food for identical pallets of canned food.

Over the last two weeks we added a depth of two pallets to the pallet gravity feed, so now, one night a week, we are literally forklifting every front pallet off the feed (low side/oldest first) into the basement of the grocery and bringing newly purchased pallets to add to the back end (high side/newest) of the pallet gravity feed. We have long since paid for all the existing pallets, so by trading one for one, we always have fresh stock of all pallet food types and a stupid-proof method of rotation. (Unless we have to use some of a front pallet, in which case we purchase what we need from the grocery to replace missing cases, shrink wrap, and then trade it out.)

 

[Dave V]

Gold was manipulated down. Bitcoin doesn't have a true ETF yet so they can't short paper Bitcoin like they short paper gold.

Are you saying mass buying and selling of "gold on paper" could trigger automated computer buying or selling at some thresh hold and then the manipulators jump in or out to take the profits caused by the triggered buying or selling? Sorry for the wordiness.

 

[DrHenley]

The short sales that drive the price down are too large and too risky for it to be just normal short sellers doing it. Some of the dips have bounced back so fast they had to cover at a huge loss. Speculation is that the U.S. Treasury is doing it.

 

[Dave V]

The short sales that drive the price down are too large and too risky for it to be just normal short sellers doing it. Some of the dips have bounced back so fast they had to cover at a huge loss. Speculation is that the U.S. Treasury is doing it.

Maybe, but to what end? The US Treasury owns billions in bullion, so why would they want to devalue it? I'm obviously missing their motives.

 

[wheresclair]

Gold is down, Bitcoin is up...go figure?!
Great group meetings this morning. Folks are nervous but calm.
Great supper tonight, very smooth so far considering the number of people inside!

Best cooks ever! Great meal, talk and laughter sounded almost like a roar as you approached mess hall. Lots of "I'll show you mine if you show me yours" - holstered pistols came out at the supper tables. A couple got dropped to the floor. Lots of gritted teeth. Newbies make me nervous...too much enthusiasm.

You are all already in facility now? We cannot at all because of more water problem and the electricity wire was also cutted so now we have to do again.

If your guys that are in Ukraine can not get the grandmother into the US and you need safe home, we can have her be with our home for sure for you. My daughter speaks the Russian very well if that would be a good thing. Tell me and I will say yes.

 

[Dave V]

You are all already in facility now? We cannot at all because of more water problem and the electricity wire was also cutted so now we have to do again.

If your guys that are in Ukraine can not get the grandmother into the US and you need safe home, we can have her be with our home for sure for you. My daughter speaks the Russian very well if that would be a good thing. Tell me and I will say yes.

Clair,
Yes, just about everyone is here. Putin is egging on both the hawks and libs, hoping that one or both will take the bait and give him the excuse he needs to launch a nuke. He understands that we are so risk averse, we will hesitate or will not act at all, giving him serious advantage. I'm sure his subs are already in position and quiet, so we will have little or no warning if he decides to strike first.
Thank you for the offer, it may in fact be needed. I will PM you when I know more. Thank you again.

P.S. Sorry about your wiring and water problems. This is a really bad time to be unable to use your facility. I hope you can get that new wire run and get your pumps going quickly! Maybe use a trencher this time if possible so it is too deep to be accidentally cut?

 

[Dave V]

In early February we expanded our hydroponics to handle the extra mouths we recently had to feed. It's still going to take a while to develop those crops so we're at a deficit for now on fresh veggies and supplementing with frozen. If everyone who is here now stays for a couple months, the hydroponics will catch up.

As for our live food experiments, the Carp and Tilapia are not big enough to eat yet, but they're getting there, especially the Carp.
The "Turkens" and "Plymouth Rock" chickens will be big enough to start laying eggs in April or May, so we're out of luck egg-wise for now.
As for the rabbits (Flemish Giants and Palomino,) they expect some Palomino bunnies to be born probably in May, but the Flemish Giants apparently take more than a year to mature, so that probably means we will NOT be breeding them. Maybe we'll have fresh rabbit sometime soon at their expense?

 

[Dave V]

I've had the facility managers keep really good records of our food, water, and energy usage during this time of heavy member usage. The usage IS significant but better to know if the usage tracks with their models than to be surprised when we are stuck with a facility full of people who can't run to McDonalds as many are doing now. The gravity flow rotation works like a charm! When an empty pallet gets removed, the one behind it smoothly rolls to the front and even slows to a stop. As this Ukraine thing drags out, a good number of folks are going out and don't come back for a few days. We already make the kids we have walk over to the school for classes rather than using one of the mess halls, so hopefully tensions will ease enough for them all to go home and I'll be able to spend more time in the grocery where I'm having some issues with a couple of newer employees who are chronically late. I hate being my own HR.

 

[Dave V]

The Movie Reviews!
I just realized there was a movie thread, so I moved it to:
Movies to Keep You Inspired

 

[Dave V]

Solar stuff, if anyone cares...

We have over 30 public power utilities in our state but fortunately they offer net-metering, i.e. they buy any electricity you produce in your solar array if you agree to their terms and behave. Shhhh! We don't actually behave, since they want us to provide ALL of our output to them for credits. We take what we want first and then channel the excess through their meter. There's a pending new solar law, HB-741, and if it gets signed into law, new solar arrays may not be worth building, but fortunately if you already have an array, you get a 20-year grandfather grace period before they make it more difficult and expensive to own. That should easily outlive me and in 20 years who knows what the law will be?!

Our "stealth" dual system is designed to primarily use net-metering, but we can easily divert as much power directly to the facility as we want. The Li-ion batteries are always kept topped off, and the facility is now always 100 percent powered by the array. Even when we were at 91 percent of our membership in the facility last week, our usage inside the facility barely affected our net-metered output. We have way more capacity than we need for our facility, but the idea is to have the cells pay for themselves now and then when SHTF, we'll be set by switching over completely. Our inverters are designed to handle the total output of the entire shopping center's solar array and as long as the power company is online and buying our excess, we are actually making money on our solar production. When SHTF and we suddenly are not diverting electricity to the power company, we can switch entire sections of the array off so as to not waste the excess into the ground. There will be rainy or cloudy days when we will have all panels online, but frequently, entire store rooftops will probably be switched off. That being said, we still test all generators monthly, first with natural gas (the default fuel) from the utility company (FPU,) and then with propane which is stored on-site.

 

[user 7704]

I dont think I have known 100 people in total my whole life.
that kind of group size in post SHTF is far too big I can see problems arising with so large a group.

That’s a lot of egos in a small space.

 

[Dave V]

That’s a lot of egos in a small space.

It actually "feels bigger" than you'd think because of the 20-foot ceilings.
There are several egos that sometimes think things should be done differently, but they've been given more responsibilities, so they become part of the solution. It works. No unrest or mutinies!

 

[Dave V]

We are 100% energy self-sufficient, but we are still not there yet with hydroponic vegetables. When we were at 91% of the membership staying in the facility all or most of everyday for about a week, we still had to bring in fresh vegetables. The team estimates it's going to take another 3 months to get us to where we need to be to be totally self-sufficient for vegetable production. They are adding two 40-foot containers to the hydroponics area to provide additional trays, pump systems, and lights. If we end up having to deploy sooner than that, we can make do by supplementing with canned vegetables. If nothing happens and we have a huge excess, members are used to dropping by for fresh veggies and if that doesn't cover it, we can always get a spot at the farmer's market.

 

[Dave V]

These guys are a WHOLE OTHER LEVEL of efficiency over what we do, but we only spend a couple thousand dollars setting up each container. These guys want 75K per container!!
I don't know that we could even eat that much food, but the automation would certainly be nice! WATCH!

Our containers look more like this with access aisles and lights at different levels, whereas the CUBIC FARMS guys rotate the trays and bring the food right to you for harvesting!
Pretty sweet, but it would all "go south" if you lost power for very long or customers dried up like during Covid-19.
Less efficient, but we grow what we need and give away the excess!

 

[Dave V]

Now if Cubic Farms sold each container with enough topside solar panels, and inverter etc. to make their hydroponic containers completely self-sufficient (except for connecting to a water line - it can't "make water" too!) then it might be worth 75K, but I haven't heard of anyone doing that?!

 

[Dave V]

I've been asked "why not just sell our excess veggies in our own grocery store?" Yeah, about that. The grocery buys produce from local farmers, so we don't ever want to compete with the farmers. I was also just talking junk about ever getting a booth at the farmer's market. We wouldn't do that for the same reason. Our own members have been snagging our excess veggies for years, so stopping that practice MIGHT mean more purchases from local farms, but it's a perk I don't think we'll curtail. The main thing is, we just don't want to flood the market with additional veggies that would decrease sales to the farmers. So anyway, that's why.

 

[Dave V]

All our High School students take a "Career and Technical Education" (CTE) course called "Technology Studies" which if they were in a public school might be considered a joke course, but they take it seriously (and with glee) because we've added a Friday component that makes it all worthwhile. Parents have all signed their approval of this curriculum although it goes well beyond what kids would normally get out of this class.

Several and sometimes MANY parents attend this Friday class with their kids (me too) to glean what they can. Monday through Thursday, they follow the standard curriculum although accelerated. They also get drilled for homework several times a week with a 15-minute web-based tutorial/game that gives them practice using the terms used in the curriculum.

One Friday session I attended, students were required to "acquire" (carefully remove from a rooftop and return with it to a safe location - the classroom parking lot) a solar panel, wiring, batteries, and inverter from a nearby rooftop (NOT our active system, but one installed for teaching purposes) and get it to charge the batteries and power several lights. Coming into the lesson, they already had a background in the required components and theory, so this was the practical application of carefully disassembling and reassembling the system.
It is HEAVILY stressed that these scenarios are for a W.R.O.L. AND there's a disruption in power" AND the system is being wasted on a vacant building."
Understandably, parents don't want us to develop juvenile delinquents, but everyone understands why these skills are included.

Other Fridays, everyone got to learn how to drive and use a
bobcat, forklift, a scissors lift, a D40 bulldozer, a water truck, a fire engine (just a demo - no one got to drive it!) a dump truck, a school bus, a Sprinter van, and an 18 wheeler (Freightliner Columbia.) More, I just can't remember.

They also learn how to safely start and operate gas, diesel, natural gas, and LP generators, water pumps, a concrete saw, and a compressor. Again, more I can't recall.

Another Friday, they controversially (but parent approved) learned in theory and with some actual vehicles, how to start (if no key) and get (siphon) fuel and other W.R.O.L. skills that might be useful.

We've been doing this with our high school aged kids since 2008 (way before we developed our own school) and we've not had a single kid go off the rails and start a "life of crime," so it's worked pretty well. These kids will be an asset to any group if they end up somewhere else after college. We are fortunate that very few have moved away but understandably, our little town doesn't have the dazzle, the restaurants, and nightlife that a big city can provide...but we like it here just fine!

 

[Dave V]

Until we upgraded our firing range, kids had to go with their parents to a nearby local range to get practice. In general, that meant they shared their lane with their parent which for a beginner, I think it's a good requirement, so they get the guidance they NEED.
Previously, our kids were only allowed to use our facility's archery range, but now if they are certified and have parental approval, they can get their own lane in our updated firing range. Some are VERY good marksmen.

 

[Dave V]

In that "Career and Technical Education" Technology Studies class (see above,) the kids also, (over the course of the year,) will tour, study about, and do projects on all of our facility systems. They won't by any means become experts on any of our systems such as food rotation, the generators, the solar arrays, the ventilation and filtration systems, hydroponics, or security etc. but they'll learn enough that some of them might eventually step into some of those roles. It also helps to have them understand that it all "doesn't just happen"...a lot of planning, work, and maintenance goes into everything they might otherwise take for granted. It's a real "buy in" for them because they feel like they are being trusted with privileged knowledge and they are more cooperative about family meetings and other required events that some of them sometimes balk at "having to attend."

 

[Dave V]

This years' graduating class has more kids going to nearby colleges than out of state colleges than previous years. I'd like to think it was because they want to stay closer to home, but it could be remnants of Covid or a host of other reasons.

 

[Dave V]

Tomorrow, (Friday) the TS class is touring the water storage sector which includes 375,000 gallons (combined) of fresh, gray, and black water storage. They will learn about the filtration and treatment facility as well as the valves and pumps that control the rainwater, well, and city water sources. I intend to pop over from the grocery to tell the story about how moving the generators from the parking deck roof was a mistake so they understand that people make mistakes...sometimes really expensive ones, but eventually, with input, (hopefully their input!) we can make things even better.

 

[Dave V]

We had a great tour with our High School technology class this past Friday. They asked some really good questions!