Their attorney is trying to force me to pay her fees - not take it out of everyone's. So how can I choose to stop playing it? I'm wondering if I should just refuse to go to the meeting. Joanne said she is going but I don't want them ganging up on her but it's me they hate the most because I fought them in court back in 2016 without a lawyer and won. It's sport to them - they're just sick. So I'm confused about what I should do. Joanne may be right to get it over with but I may be right to not dance to their tune. I don't know what's right. Stress I think somehow blocks your ability to think clearly.
Dealing with corrupt siblings and their corrupt lawyer and possibly corrupt judge; any advice?
- Thread starter shanrose
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In everything you have written, nowhere did you give any legal information. That is odd.
For example, you did not mention a will, your brother's appointment of executor, asset evaluation, etc.
Normally the executor is appointed by that will. If not they are court appointed.
You have not mentioned what the squabble is about. My guess there is no action yet, just everyone jittery about what is ahead.
One strategy might be to allow the executor to do their job. This should be easy as they now have legal guidance.
After liquidation, if there is a squabble you can sue.
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I have 8 siblings. I managed my Mom's affairs. Prior to her death, I had everyone Quick Claim her home to me. This way they all were out of the equation. This simplified selling the home and kept her estate out of Probate.
Upon her death I cut myself out of her will so I could act as her appointed executor without decisions impacting me personally.
We all got through it peacefully with one exception. Two 70 year old sisters had a slap out over Mom's hats. Old grudges carry forward.
My advice is let the executor or executrix do their job.
For example, you did not mention a will, your brother's appointment of executor, asset evaluation, etc.
Normally the executor is appointed by that will. If not they are court appointed.
You have not mentioned what the squabble is about. My guess there is no action yet, just everyone jittery about what is ahead.
One strategy might be to allow the executor to do their job. This should be easy as they now have legal guidance.
After liquidation, if there is a squabble you can sue.
_____________________________________________________
I have 8 siblings. I managed my Mom's affairs. Prior to her death, I had everyone Quick Claim her home to me. This way they all were out of the equation. This simplified selling the home and kept her estate out of Probate.
Upon her death I cut myself out of her will so I could act as her appointed executor without decisions impacting me personally.
We all got through it peacefully with one exception. Two 70 year old sisters had a slap out over Mom's hats. Old grudges carry forward.
My advice is let the executor or executrix do their job.
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P. S. I once did an audit for a large Country Club.
I took a break and was looking at all the awards on the Board Room wall.
I saw a bronze plaque that said
. . . . . "and god so loved the world that he sent his only begotten son,
. . . . . . instead of a Committee."
I took a break and was looking at all the awards on the Board Room wall.
I saw a bronze plaque that said
. . . . . "and god so loved the world that he sent his only begotten son,
. . . . . . instead of a Committee."
He didn't leave a will. Patrice was bugging him to appoint her but he refused. He had no family or wife. The judge appointed Patrice and Linda knowing they tried to alter my father's will and stole from Joanne. I could not believe it. It's insane. Joanne couldn't be Executrix, and I have health problems but we tried to have Joanne's daughter appointed - she's very moral but the judge didn't listen to us. The lawyer we hired did say that the law desires a direct relative but to appoint them knowing of the hell they put us through and stole from Joanne is unconscionable. Some judges have been known to be corrupt - watch the "Kids for Cash" documentary.
You don't understand those two evil siblings. They will NOT "do their job" - they stole from Joanne by altering my father's will without a codicil. I later found out that they stole $1,000 more from the estate. We got nothing of sentimental value - they took everything. I didn't get one photo. They even stole gifts I had given my parents over the years. I know it sounds like you had a normal family and you think that's the way things go but this is NOT a normal family. There is something evil that's in them. They're going to get a fair amount but aren't satisfied with that - they're going after my share. My husband said they're angry because I beat them in court over my father's case. I think it's that and just pure greed. And if they can they'll steal more. People with normal families don't understand what it's like to have an abnormal family. Unfortunately I had the misfortune of having an abnormal family.
Have You checked out that Link yet...?!?
So what do you guess the value of the estate is?
Estimate it now. Then divide that amount by 2.
That brings the value into real street value from a forced sale.
Then divide that amount by the number of siblings.
That is what you are risking your health for.
Estimate it now. Then divide that amount by 2.
That brings the value into real street value from a forced sale.
Then divide that amount by the number of siblings.
That is what you are risking your health for.
Ahhh
Er
Play the game,You can fake nice nice huggy huggy sweet as honey
For a few hours
Look at it this way, play the game or pay the lawyers
Choice is really yours to make
The Bible says that God hates lying and that there are no situations where God would lie. However, it doesn't explicitly state that lying is never acceptable. Some say that lying may be the right thing to do in rare cases to prevent a greater evil, such as protecting Jews from the Nazis. Others say that lying to protect yourself or loved ones, such as lying to an abuser to escape domestic abuse, is acceptable. However, circumstances alone aren't a guide to what's right or wrong.
Sorry to be so long winded folks. Allow me to say it this way.
In 1968 I was in college as a Psych major. One day the professor came in with a Polygraph machine. He asked Sweet 19 year old Suzy to come hook up to it.
He told her to answer the first question truthfully, lie on the second, then all other questions she was to remain silent. The machine was set up so we could all see the dial.
1st Question: Is your name Suzy?
Answer: "Yes"
Needle - moved very little.
2nd Question : "Are you a graduate student?"
Answer: "Yes"
Needle: Wild swing
3rd Question: "Tee Shirt"
Needle: Minor movement
4th Question: Ice tea
Needle: Minor Movement
5th Question "Vietnam"
Needle: Wild swing
last word: "Pregnant"
Needle Damn near bent itself.
Suzy's face turned bright red and she was breathing hard.
The professor apologized to he and unhooked her to sit down.
He then said just the words will trick the machine.
Those emotional words to her made her shoot adrenaline
all throughout her system and would take up to 6 hours to for her body to remove it.
In the meantime, it will inflame some organs.
_____________________________________________
Shanrose, you are doing the same to yourself when you say they are evil or simply dwell on them like you do. Your body cannot continually keep this pace up.
You had best run from this and stop destroying your health.
You can't afford this game.
In 1968 I was in college as a Psych major. One day the professor came in with a Polygraph machine. He asked Sweet 19 year old Suzy to come hook up to it.
He told her to answer the first question truthfully, lie on the second, then all other questions she was to remain silent. The machine was set up so we could all see the dial.
1st Question: Is your name Suzy?
Answer: "Yes"
Needle - moved very little.
2nd Question : "Are you a graduate student?"
Answer: "Yes"
Needle: Wild swing
3rd Question: "Tee Shirt"
Needle: Minor movement
4th Question: Ice tea
Needle: Minor Movement
5th Question "Vietnam"
Needle: Wild swing
last word: "Pregnant"
Needle Damn near bent itself.
Suzy's face turned bright red and she was breathing hard.
The professor apologized to he and unhooked her to sit down.
He then said just the words will trick the machine.
Those emotional words to her made her shoot adrenaline
all throughout her system and would take up to 6 hours to for her body to remove it.
In the meantime, it will inflame some organs.
_____________________________________________
Shanrose, you are doing the same to yourself when you say they are evil or simply dwell on them like you do. Your body cannot continually keep this pace up.
You had best run from this and stop destroying your health.
You can't afford this game.
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did your bortherhave any will or instructions? any kids who may be involved?
somce the 2 sisters played dirty over your fathers assets, and you know they are going to do it again, you really need a lawyer for this battle.
but is it worth it?
if you have any letter or note or records of what your brother wanted done, its gonna be a mess and very costly. so you got to ask yourself is it worth it?
yes there is an emotional toll dealing with this stuff.
if its important to have victory over the culprits because you know they are doing wrong according to your brothers wishes, then ask the Lord for guidance and go to battle.
but if not then walk away and let God deal with them
i wish you all the best, it is a very hard thing to go thru
somce the 2 sisters played dirty over your fathers assets, and you know they are going to do it again, you really need a lawyer for this battle.
but is it worth it?
if you have any letter or note or records of what your brother wanted done, its gonna be a mess and very costly. so you got to ask yourself is it worth it?
yes there is an emotional toll dealing with this stuff.
if its important to have victory over the culprits because you know they are doing wrong according to your brothers wishes, then ask the Lord for guidance and go to battle.
but if not then walk away and let God deal with them
i wish you all the best, it is a very hard thing to go thru
This is my understanding of how things are supposed to work (but I am not a lawyer, so take everything I say below with a grain of salt).
If your brother died intestate (i.e., without a will) and has any assets to speak of, then the estate will go to probate. Since no executor was specified, part of what the probate court has to do is assign an administrator. It sounds like the probate court has already done this, and assigned the incorrect person in your opinion. That can indeed happen.
This assigned person has the duty to administer the estate. But it is the probate court - not the administrator - that decides where the assets will go. At least in the states I am somewhat familiar with - Colorado and Texas. I can't imagine that any state would just give all the assets to the assigned administrator and wipe their hands of the matter. Probate courts are pretty much designed to handle feuding family members. They're not going to throw gasoline on the fire by giving all the assets to one of the feuding parties.
The probate court decides who gets what based on state law from the state the estate is located in. The administrator distributes those assets. If they fail to do this as instructed by the probate court, they're going to get themselves into some legal trouble. The administrator is also responsible for identifying the people (relatives, friends, etc.) that might have some claim to the estate. If that administrator were to leave a significant relative (the O.P.) off the list (and a sibling would be a significant relative), then once again - that administrator would be putting themselves into legal jeopardy.
I would not fight the probate court over who the assigned administrator is. That is a job I wouldn't want for myself. Let someone else deal with all the headaches (like a sibling that you hate, for example). I would fight for what is distributed to who (again - that is decided by the probate court, not the administrator). Assuming that there is anything there to be worth fighting over in the first place. With four feuding siblings and lawyers involved, I personally wouldn't even bother with it unless your brothers net worth was well over a million dollars (that's net worth - total assets minus mortgages, loans, other debt, etc.) A million dollars, divided by four, depreciated due to the sibling fighting and the subsequent need to hold a hostile "fire sale" of estate contents, and all this encumbered with high lawyer fees - would probably work out to well below $100k for you. If even that. Is it worth it? It definitely depends on your brothers net worth. I'm not sure I'd fight for my share of a '97 Buick if that's what it comes down to.
If your brother died intestate (i.e., without a will) and has any assets to speak of, then the estate will go to probate. Since no executor was specified, part of what the probate court has to do is assign an administrator. It sounds like the probate court has already done this, and assigned the incorrect person in your opinion. That can indeed happen.
This assigned person has the duty to administer the estate. But it is the probate court - not the administrator - that decides where the assets will go. At least in the states I am somewhat familiar with - Colorado and Texas. I can't imagine that any state would just give all the assets to the assigned administrator and wipe their hands of the matter. Probate courts are pretty much designed to handle feuding family members. They're not going to throw gasoline on the fire by giving all the assets to one of the feuding parties.
The probate court decides who gets what based on state law from the state the estate is located in. The administrator distributes those assets. If they fail to do this as instructed by the probate court, they're going to get themselves into some legal trouble. The administrator is also responsible for identifying the people (relatives, friends, etc.) that might have some claim to the estate. If that administrator were to leave a significant relative (the O.P.) off the list (and a sibling would be a significant relative), then once again - that administrator would be putting themselves into legal jeopardy.
I would not fight the probate court over who the assigned administrator is. That is a job I wouldn't want for myself. Let someone else deal with all the headaches (like a sibling that you hate, for example). I would fight for what is distributed to who (again - that is decided by the probate court, not the administrator). Assuming that there is anything there to be worth fighting over in the first place. With four feuding siblings and lawyers involved, I personally wouldn't even bother with it unless your brothers net worth was well over a million dollars (that's net worth - total assets minus mortgages, loans, other debt, etc.) A million dollars, divided by four, depreciated due to the sibling fighting and the subsequent need to hold a hostile "fire sale" of estate contents, and all this encumbered with high lawyer fees - would probably work out to well below $100k for you. If even that. Is it worth it? It definitely depends on your brothers net worth. I'm not sure I'd fight for my share of a '97 Buick if that's what it comes down to.
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when my broyther passed last year, he had no real estate, no will or notification of what he wants done, nofamily, dependants. he didnt have much at all.
the state has an automatic probate and decides what to do and they said pay any outstanding bills, had to return his SS payment and the remainrd was to be split between remaining family--me and another sister.
what does the laws in his state require?
the state has an automatic probate and decides what to do and they said pay any outstanding bills, had to return his SS payment and the remainrd was to be split between remaining family--me and another sister.
what does the laws in his state require?
Yes - I know of someone who knows about that firm.
It will turn out to be about $70k for each sibling - but I suspect that attorney will try to run the bill up, and possibly other payments may need to be paid so it will likely be less.
So you wouldn't go to the meeting and risk my health? My sister insists on going and I don't want them ganging up on her because that's how they've played their game before. They lie about everything and accused my sister and I of what they themselves have done. I do NOT like dealing with liars. The other issue is that I don't know if that judge is honorable. Watch the documentary "Cash for Kids." It's truly heartbreaking.
My health has been precarious from other issues and this has exacerbated it immensely. At my father's hearing the judge was honest and told me that she's seen a lot of battles over money. All Joanne and I want is for everything to be done fairly. They are so greedy they're not content with getting their share. They found another corrupt lawyer willing to lie and try to "legally" steal. So now what? Is there recourse if that judge goes along with the corrupt attorney? Can they steal even more from my brother's investments? If they can they will.
I hear what you're saying. I tried overcoming evil with good and reached out to them but they thumbed their nose to me. It angered me after all they've done (far, far worse than I can recount here) to Joanne and I so I went back at them. Then the judge put the fox in charge of the henhouse. So I again tried overcoming evil with good and no matter how nice I try to be, their lawyer has done nothing but attack me. I'm not someone's punching bag. I can only take so much. Am I to continue trying to overcome evil with good or am I to shake the dust off my feet? When is it right to fight? I don't know and God isn't making it clear or I'm dull of hearing.
When is it right to fight and when is it right to overcome evil with good? I think of those religious sects from years back - Amish or something? The men refused to fight and would let men rape their wives and daughters. I have a hard time discerning when to turn the other cheek and when to take a stand. I recall Dear Abby saying years ago that "you don't turn the other cheek when the first one is black and blue."
I've been in a state of exhaustion and have begged God to remove them from our lives.
Yes but what should I do? Refuse to go to the meeting and risk them ganging up on Joanne? I agree with you that I'm in burnout but I don't know how that translates into action. I responded to their lying lawyer and wrote a response stating that they've committed perjury and harassment and I would not be responding to anything else. Then their lawyer sends a notification of a hearing. I sent a notice to the court that I was unable to attend. Their lawyer is apparently busting a gasket and just sent my sister and I another notification of the meeting. I ignored it. I am trying to get them out of my life but they want to engage and I denied them that.
No. He never married. We already paid a lot to a lawyer and lost. My husband said we are absolutely not paying anymore lawyer fees. There was no will. I have been praying but not much is coming clear about what way to go.
Yes but they stole from Joanne's inheritance with my father's estate and nothing was done to them. I fought them and won - the judge was honest that time. However, I have read enough and talked to enough to know that judges can be corrupt - I heard it right from an attorney. I responded to their lawyer's vicious attacks and asked for relief from the court for their perjury and harassment and never received a response. Is that normal? Their lawyer then sent us notification of a court date. I said that I'm not going and their lawyer is busting a gasket and just sent another notification. She can jump up and down until she cracks. It's just a ploy to drain the estate and the others are greedy and trying to get more. However, Joanne said it's a monkey on her back and she wants to get it over with. So I don't want her to go alone and have them gang up on her. However, my health is not good. I'm in a quandary. I have my own way of handling things and she has hers but I'm unsure who is right and how best to handle it.
I'm unsure of what the laws are in his state. I wish he had left a will because it would have made it easier. People with normal extended families don't know what it's like to deal with evil family members. I just want them away from me.
This may Help :
https://www.everplans.com/articles/state-by-state-probate-laws
https://smartasset.com/estate-planning/how-long-do-you-have-to-file-probate-after-death
Good Luck, If You are able, Help Your Sister in any way possible...
https://www.everplans.com/articles/state-by-state-probate-laws
https://smartasset.com/estate-planning/how-long-do-you-have-to-file-probate-after-death
Good Luck, If You are able, Help Your Sister in any way possible...
Thank you for your kindness. I pulled the sites up and will read them.
Thanks to all who took the time to share their wisdom. I began researching how to have inner peace. I know that I'm in the danger zone and cannot withstand anymore. I prayed and asked God to remove those two from me - please pray for me.
Been doing just that and will continue to 
for You to Find and Have the Strength to continue to Protect Your Family and Sister...!!!
for You to Find and Have the Strength to continue to Protect Your Family and Sister...!!!
One More Tidbit of info, what-ever You find out that will Help You and Sis, Print it out and have it with You...
This is after the fact...but POD's and TOD's help get things to others...they trump wills to my understanding too...they are set up and all person has to do is go in transfer them...no probate either...so can be done as soon as a death certificate is available. Land,bank accounts,CD's,savings accounts and vehicles.
Shan no one can tell you to go or not—only you can decide that. Perhaps you and Joanne should discuss a strategy if you were to go. Standing shoulder to shoulder with Joanne, physically, emotionally and metaphorically might be where your strength will come from.
Did these two bully you and Joanne when you were children? If they did, was there a tactic that made them back off?
Wow thank you - I'd like to look for alternative ways to handle things when my hubby and I go.
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What Haertig said is my understanding as well. The probate court is where all of this lies. That’s your best chance at fairness. Let her do what she will and challenge in probate. If you have proof of the theft of your sister’s share of your father’s estate, use it at the first hearing for division of assets
I know but my wisdom seems in short supply at the moment and I wondered what others would do. I've had times throughout my life where a chance remark was just what I needed. And I'm in need now.
No I was not the type to allow anyone to bully me nor was Joanne. The other two are just very jealous, and very greedy. They formed an "evil alliance" as Joanne said, and they stole from Joanne so her and I joined together.
The lawyer we hired early on submitted the theft to the court - the judge still appointed them. I spoke with another attorney who said "that defies logic." I don't know that judge's motives but she obviously lacks integrity. Watch the "Cash for Kids" documentary. Some judges are honorable but not all. That's what concerns me. That and my health. I am physically and emotionally depleted.
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Maybe I'm missing something here, but is it the lawyer that represents your other 2 sisters that wants this meeting? It seems like that lawyer is hopping mad that you won't go. If that's the case, then you are doing something right. You are messing with their plan......whatever that may be.
Do they want you and your sis to show up unrepresented? If that's the case, then don't go. You (and your sis) have absolutely nothing to gain by meeting with only their lawyer. The only reason they would want this is to rattle your cage and collect evidence that could be used against you. You will gain nothing but stress.....
Do you have any evidence that THIS judge is corrupt? If not, then I'd just go with it and give him or her the benefit of the doubt. There is an appeals process, but it sounds like that is not something you want to deal with. You need to speak with your lawyer and let the stress fall on him or her to get this done and out of your life. If your sister is more inclined to fight than you are, let her handle things through the lawyer.
Given the information I have gleened from this discussion, it would seem to me to be a fairly easy probate case. If there was no will and the brother wasn't close to any family members, then the next of kin (sounds like the 4 of you) would be granted equal shares of the estate. However, accounts typically have beneficiaries listed on them, so I would definitely check with any banking institutions (savings, checking, IRA, investments, etc.) and inquire as to the beneficiary of those accounts. Whoever is named will be granted those funds, no matter what happens in court.
Do they want you and your sis to show up unrepresented? If that's the case, then don't go. You (and your sis) have absolutely nothing to gain by meeting with only their lawyer. The only reason they would want this is to rattle your cage and collect evidence that could be used against you. You will gain nothing but stress.....
Do you have any evidence that THIS judge is corrupt? If not, then I'd just go with it and give him or her the benefit of the doubt. There is an appeals process, but it sounds like that is not something you want to deal with. You need to speak with your lawyer and let the stress fall on him or her to get this done and out of your life. If your sister is more inclined to fight than you are, let her handle things through the lawyer.
Given the information I have gleened from this discussion, it would seem to me to be a fairly easy probate case. If there was no will and the brother wasn't close to any family members, then the next of kin (sounds like the 4 of you) would be granted equal shares of the estate. However, accounts typically have beneficiaries listed on them, so I would definitely check with any banking institutions (savings, checking, IRA, investments, etc.) and inquire as to the beneficiary of those accounts. Whoever is named will be granted those funds, no matter what happens in court.
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I'm sorry it is all such a mess but do not lose your faith and trust in God. He hears your prayers and knows the situation. Our prayers are not always answered in the way we want but God will help you through this.
