Electric Cars

[Brent S]

Even without thinking about pollution the technology with EV’s just has better potential than gas cars. It’s coming regardless of peoples opinions on them. In 20 years 75% of all vehicles will be electric. Sooner if they come up with a better battery.
But as far as shtf, or any prolonged major crisis, any vehicle going down the road would be a target to be stolen or even destroyed just out of envy. Where would we have to go anyways? Walmart wouldn’t be open at some point. The electric motorcycle would still make sense for patrolling/security. With no lights and silent it would be the stealthiest way to roam about after dark.

 

[Brent S]

I have to respectfully disagree.
Based off the differing materials needed for a EV (I posted an article about those requirements in another thread), the real and hidden costs of going green does not add up to being more environmentally friendly.

Whenever a material that is used in an important technology becomes scarce or too costly there are people working on ways to replace it. Just like with internal combustion engines, they evolved from simple engines in the model t to what they are today. If you want to get really rich design a better battery.

 

[Proud Prepper]

The main limitation with a transition to electric is the global lithium reserve. The estimated reserves planet wide are about 15 million tons. Oil reserves, 1.5 trillion barrels. For all practical purposes the lithium is non-recyclable so we would have consumed it all long before we electrified even half of the world's fleets.

The whole EV transition is just an exercise in hopium, something to keep the masses distracted while we burn through the last of the oil reserves. Oil we use of course to extract transport and refine said lithium. It's all a joke as far as I am concerned. Electric bicycles though, that could have promise.

I agree with most of that,, However, oil is a replenishable resource.

 

[Dave2001]

I've got an old petrol MPV, very good mileage and small enough for the narrow country lanes around here.

I wouldnt own an electric car if it was given to me, only elec car i consider is my golf cart!!!!

 

[backandbeyond]

I have to respectfully disagree.
Based off the differing materials needed for a EV (I posted an article about those requirements in another thread), the real and hidden costs of going green does not add up to being more environmentally friendly.

I read a similar article, add up all the smelting for the steel, extraction and processing of lithium and other rare metals, the high cost of manufacturing batteries and the electronics and you have used enough fossil fuels to run a standard car for the life of the EV. But you don't have to do all that, just look at the price, all that is inherent in the price. There is a reason why a 2021 Nissan Leaf with a halfway decent battery range is US$44,000

$44,000 for a japanese compact car! And it's about the cheapest one on the market. Only yuppies and greenHeads with more acess to credit than sense buy them. IMO they are a dead-end, like the Segway.

 

[Brent S]

That Nissan Leaf isn’t nearly as nice as the cheapest Tesla model 3. Not in quality, power, range, or in any way, and is about the same cost. All I can say is test drive a Tesla before you say you would never consider an electric. If you like driving a powerful sports car they will blow you away. And that’s the cheapest one. The model S Plaid is capable of beating every professional race car out there, but it’s triple the cost of a model 3. If you really have disposable income check out their roadster. That’s the one he sent into near Mars orbit as a publicity stunt. I’m sure in the next 5 years there will be many quality EV’s but right now Tesla is by far the best and it has the charging infrastructure to go with it. I did read that he is planning to allow other brands to use his charging network in the future too.

 

[Amish Heart]

I thought the greenies were against using lots of electricity and things not recyclable. So why the push for electric cars with toxic batteries? I don't get.
Horse and buggy, or tractor are used where I live. And yes, it takes a long time to get anywhere, but oh well.

 

[Digout]

Melbourne to Sydney takes 2 tanks of petrol, refill empty to full 10 minutes tops.
Range of EV about 500Km, time to recharge 30 minutes.

How the heck you would top-up an EV on the Nullabor? I hate to think.
EV in OZ not going to happen for a long time, except for driving around the 'Burbs.

 

[lonewolf]

I agree with most of that,, However, oil is a replenishable resource.

only in another million years.

 

[backandbeyond]

I'd never ride in one, period. You crash into a tree and the airbags deploy and save your life. Then the batteries under the seats ignite and you are burned alive trapped in a wrecked car. Lots of stories about that happening, couldn't think of a worse way to die.

 

[Brent S]

I thought the greenies were against using lots of electricity and things not recyclable. So why the push for electric cars with toxic batteries? I don't get.
Horse and buggy, or tractor are used where I live. And yes, it takes a long time to get anywhere, but oh well.

I’m certain horse and buggy are the most ecological friendly mode of transport out there, by far. But most want to get around more quickly and without all the poop, lol. I mostly respect the electric cars due to their better efficiency and vastly simpler design which makes them more durable, with less moving parts to wear. They are ‘greener‘ than combustion cars but unless the power to charge them is produced by wind, hydro or solar then it still produces greenhouse gases. I just really respect that the cheapest Tesla model out there can outperform all the classic muscle cars and do it with style and comfort. If they can do this now, just think how advanced they will be in 20 years!

 

[Brent S]

I'd never ride in one, period. You crash into a tree and the airbags deploy and save your life. Then the batteries under the seats ignite and you are burned alive trapped in a wrecked car. Lots of stories about that happening, couldn't think of a worse way to die.

People said the exact same thing about cars with fuel tanks filled with gasoline. Luckily it’s rare for any car to catch fire, not impossible but rare, except on tv.

 

[Mountain trapper]

I agree with most of that,, However, oil is a replenishable resource.

Its also very abundant, reliable and inexpensive. New discoveries are made almost daily. For those who want electric, go buy one.

 

[lonewolf]

Its also very abundant, reliable and inexpensive. New discoveries are made almost daily. For those who want electric, go buy one.

it may be reliable, it could be abundant, it certainly isnt inexpensive.

 

[MOS0231]

I read a similar article, add up all the smelting for the steel, extraction and processing of lithium and other rare metals, the high cost of manufacturing batteries and the electronics and you have used enough fossil fuels to run a standard car for the life of the EV. But you don't have to do all that, just look at the price, all that is inherent in the price. There is a reason why a 2021 Nissan Leaf with a halfway decent battery range is US$44,000

$44,000 for a japanese compact car! And it's about the cheapest one on the market. Only yuppies and greenHeads with more acess to credit than sense buy them. IMO they are a dead-end, like the Segway.

That price does not include the price of disposal of all those elements.
Just throwing them into the landfill is not environmentally friendly.

Just read last week of a Tesla rolling down a hill on fire in Philly.

 

[Mountain trapper]

it may be reliable, it could be abundant, it certainly isnt inexpensive.

Its only expensive at the point of sale (pump) due to taxes and government over regulation. There's no reason for gasoline to be over $1.00 per gallon here in the US.

 

[Mountain Dragon]

Its only expensive at the point of sale (pump) due to taxes and government over regulation. There's no reason for gasoline to be over $1.00 per gallon here in the US.

LMAO
We pay in Switzerland those days 1.82$ (20 minutes ago) for ONE litre. Makes 6.19$ per gallon. OK, 80% of the price are different tax. With those tax we pay an big part to sponser the public traffic and building those rolling-toaster infrastructure... No wonder this climate-and-we-save-the-world-actions are so cheap if all others pay for. I'll wait for the day they will have to pay the effective costs for all.

 

[lonewolf]

Its only expensive at the point of sale (pump) due to taxes and government over regulation. There's no reason for gasoline to be over $1.00 per gallon here in the US.

I was thinking more of the cost of getting it out of the ground.
we pay over £1 for one litre of fuel-between $6 & $7 per gallon, 60% of that is tax.

 

[Mountain trapper]

LMAO
We pay in Switzerland those days 1.82$ (20 minutes ago) for ONE litre. Makes 6.19$ per gallon. OK, 80% of the price are different tax. With those tax we pay an big part to sponser the public traffic and building those rolling-toaster infrastructure... No wonder this climate-and-we-save-the-world-actions are so cheap if all others pay for. I'll wait for the day they will have to pay the effective costs for all.

I dont know anything about Switzerland, and don't care. But in the US and in many parts of the world there are huge oil reserves. The only reason the price of crude is as high as it is due to government. When Trump was in office gasoline was under $2.00 per gallon in most places. Now its $3.75 in my area. Thanks Biden voters.

 

[Mountain trapper]

I was thinking more of the cost of getting it out of the ground.
we pay over £1 for one litre of fuel-between $6 & $7 per gallon, 60% of that is tax.

In many oil fields the lifting cost is $20-30 per barrel. When I worked in an Alaskan oil field the cost of getting 1 barrel to the surface was $55 per barrel. That high cost was due mostly to government and environmental regulations. Alaska was the highest cost to do business in the world.

 

[MOS0231]

I’m certain horse and buggy are the most ecological friendly mode of transport out there, by far. But most want to get around more quickly and without all the poop, lol. I mostly respect the electric cars due to their better efficiency and vastly simpler design which makes them more durable, with less moving parts to wear. They are ‘greener‘ than combustion cars but unless the power to charge them is produced by wind, hydro or solar then it still produces greenhouse gases. I just really respect that the cheapest Tesla model out there can outperform all the classic muscle cars and do it with style and comfort. If they can do this now, just think how advanced they will be in 20 years!

Due to going green, CA has to import its electricity to meet demand as it is.
Last week they requested people with EVs to not charge them during peek hours.
Now, imagine where 70% of vehicles are EVs, and peek hours is then 24/7.
Someone plugs in their car, and the entirety of LA goes dark.

Edit: Anyone else recall the hype and excitement about the hydrogen economy, what? 20-30 years ago?

 

[Amish Heart]

And those EV drivers want to go visit grandma hours away. So they stop at a charging station outside a fast food restaurant and plug in while they eat. But it takes 2 hrs to refuel. Oh, no, ran out of charge on the highway. Lets call for help. Someone comes with a gas operated generator in their trunk and they can sit on the side of the road for a long while, too.
Human beings can come up with better inventions than EV cars and wind turbines. They're only being pushed because they are govt subsidized in America, but without that money, the company that makes them would go out of business. Remember the Chevy Volt? State Govt employees love to drive those, but they had a problem of catching on fire. President Obama wasn't allowed to drive one for security reasons. Tesla has been given govt subsidy money to keep them afloat. I don't think taxpayers should be paying for private company's failings. If they can't make a product that makes economic sense in a capitalistic country, let them fail.

 

[erqueen75]

 

[backandbeyond]

That price does not include the price of disposal of all those elements.
Just throwing them into the landfill is not environmentally friendly.

Yeah, lol, business as usual. I read an article years back that talked of the need for a high temperature incinerator for Australia to deal with all the toxic liquid byproduct of industry here. It was going to cost a fortune and instead they just added the waste to the gasoline mix so we could burn it in our cars. Hence the real need for a catalytic converter.

It's hard to find this info online now because the engines filter out much of what is not politically expedient. It's like potting mix, if people knew that human feces from the local waste treatment plants was a major ingredient they would think twice about buying it but hardware and supermarket shelves are full of it. That still turns up in the searches but more obscure stuff has long vanished.

I doubt the average person appreciates the extent of information manipulation that goes on. We are a lot like North Korea, but at least there they Know they are being lied to.

 

[backandbeyond]

 

[Helen Back]

Seems a good mix of stealth, power, and environmentally friendly, would be going back to the steam engine. How much solar power would it take to make something hot enough to convert water to steam? Seems you could put the panels right on the car, or pull them in a small trailer.

 

[bill harrell]

Finding Killery's laptop

 

[EastenerWesterner]

They do have their place. I have a Gas, Diesel and electric.

But I also think steam had a place too. Some of those were better than gas at the the time.

You can discount some on the shortcomings. But you can’t discount the whole category.

One company is doing it right by building the infrastructure. They could stop building cars and still make money Selling the ”juice”.

 

[Brent S]

They do have their place. I have a Gas, Diesel and electric.

But I also think steam had a place too. Some of those were better than gas at the the time.

You can discount some on the shortcomings. But you can’t discount the whole category.

One company is doing it right by building the infrastructure. They could stop building cars and still make money Selling the ”juice”.

I watched a show about one of Jay Leno’s steam powered cars. It was an amazing machine and very impressive performance. He joked it’s biggest drawback was if your wife was pregnant and said she needed to go to the hospital now, the husband would say, don’t push, give me 20 minutes to get the boiler fired up!

 

[EastenerWesterner]

I watched a show about one of Jay Leno’s steam powered cars. It was an amazing machine and very impressive performance. He joked it’s biggest drawback was if your wife was pregnant and said she needed to go to the hospital now, the husband would say, don’t push, give me 20 minutes to get the boiler fired up!

His show was filmed around my old house. Anytime you saw a cool old car coming down the road, you knew it was Jay. And he would always wave back.