EMP protection

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An EMP attack would take out all the power transformers. Right now there is a one year lead time for those big transformers. All silicon junction devices would be destroyed. An EMP attack would take any nation back to 1880's real fast. Life as we know it would vanish.
 
An EMP attack would take out all the power transformers. Right now there is a one year lead time for those big transformers. All silicon junction devices would be destroyed. An EMP attack would take any nation back to 1880's real fast. Life as we know it would vanish.
yeah thats what I read, over here in the UK we dont make them and they arent kept "on the shelf" so have to be ordered, made and shipped from overseas, each one takes several months so doing the whole system could take anything up to 2 years, thats even if they had the engineers to do it.
I think it would take the UK back to a pre industrial age which would mean an 18th century type existence, not such many people these days could live like that or would want to, except yours truly.
 
An EMP attack would take out all the power transformers. Right now there is a one year lead time for those big transformers. All silicon junction devices would be destroyed. An EMP attack would take any nation back to 1880's real fast. Life as we know it would vanish.

The big transformers, have to be moved via rail.
And as I understand it, some of those rail lines are no longer there.
 
The big transformers, have to be moved via rail.
And as I understand it, some of those rail lines are no longer there.
they certainly arent over here, ever here of Doctor Beeching? he closed a lot of the branch lines back in the 1960s, there is only one rail line down through my county and into the next and that is on the south coast nowhere near my location.
if there is no power that means no fuel so they cant bring them in by road either. most rail lines are electrified too!!!
 
To determine if something will function as a faraday cage, I suppose one could start with an understanding of RF currents. I have been using radio for a while so here is my take on it. As some already stated, there are different frequency components to an EMP attack. Lets start with higher frequencies and skin effect. Eddy currents in the metal force the majority of the current to flow within the first few mm of the material. If the metal used in your faraday cage is thin with respect to skin depth, the currents on the outside will be seen on the inside. This issue must be considered for all frequencies you encounter and becomes more of an issue for lower frequencies.

The next thing we must consider are the gaps and seams that are not sealed off. This issue is also one of frequency. In microwave ovens, that door mesh is effective at blocking most of the radiation for two reasons, one, for a metal surface to reflect RF current, ideally, it should be large with respect to a wavelength (like hams bouncing UHF signals off aircraft), which the mesh in the door is, and two, the openings are smaller than 1/20 of a wavelength meaning they cannot act as a slot antenna on that frequency absorbing and re-radiating the energy. Imagine taking a piece of sheet metal and cutting out a 1/2 wave dipole antenna. The piece you removed can be used as an antenna, but in the same way, so can the plate with the slot. The only differences are the method of feeding (for radio) and polarization (of the signal it transmits and receives). Any gaps can act like a slot antenna, absorb and re-radiate, and allow RF current inside a faraday cage. However, in this situation, what is allowed through are the frequencies the slots or holes resonate on and their higher harmonics (which only allows a portion of the spectrum through).

To seal these gaps up does not necessarily require major effort. Some metal foil tape will do just fine. Some might disagree because the sticky side is not making electrical contact, but to that I'd argue capacitive reactance. Those two metal surfaces "not in contact" are so close that the capacitor formed is essentially a dead short to RF signals higher than a few MHz (which is how those cellular antennas that stick to your window transfer signal).

The lower frequencies that can pass through the metal will not be much of a concern either as the conductors in the devices you store inside it will be an insignificant fraction of a wavelength and therefore not couple the energy. most electronics are damaged by electromagnetic pulses because the device is powered on when the pulse hits. The pulse induces a tiny current on the MOSFET and JFET gates (solid state switches) turning them all on at the same time. If a device with power has all of its thousands of semiconductor switches turn on at the same time, the smoke is surely to be let out. I doubt you will store your devices turned on, and again, due to the small size making them inefficient antennas, not enough energy will couple to fry anything if the battery is not connected.

At the end of the day, you could just store your smaller stuff under 10 feet of water in a sealed plastic pipe. As long as the device is not connected to anything that makes an effective antenna on VLF (which is thousands of feet), it will be fine. The water will block the rest.
 
Then by definition, it is NOT a Faraday Cage!
Although I agree to some extent with that, I think there is a misconception here. Michael Faraday himself acknowledged they have limitations by design, and while some signals may be blocked, others can still pass. Too many people think it must block 100% of everything to earn the name Faraday cage, this is not true. If it were, the device would be theoretical only. For example, slow-moving magnetic fields can get inside something like a sealed propane tank. I was pointing out these design issues so that people have an understanding of what they expect their "metal container" to accomplish. Obviously, if one does a crappy job, they can just call it Faraday Screening. Many scholars and universities use the term Faraday Cage for a variety of enclosures short of theoretical perfection. Sufficient broadband attenuation to achieve a high probability of protecting what's inside is the only criteria I use for describing something as a Faraday Cage. Theoretical perfection is for people with book smarts, a good calculator and zero hands-on experience!
 
Anyone thinking of using a microwave as a Faraday cage to protect their electronics must ask themselves why people with pacemakers aren't allowed near them.
 
I dont see much point in protecting one or two personal items when society will grind to a halt because the major infrastructure isnt.
adapting to the new "normal" makes more sense.
 
The only thing I would really want to protect would be my portable speaker, my tablet with a few thousand hours of music, and the means to charge it.

As BigPaul points out, if there is no infrastructure not much use.

Comms, maybe. But am I really going to care about what is going on a 1,000 miles away, or even 100 miles?
 
The only thing I would really want to protect would be my portable speaker, my tablet with a few thousand hours of music, and the means to charge it.

As BigPaul points out, if there is no infrastructure not much use.

Comms, maybe. But am I really going to care about what is going on a 1,000 miles away, or even 100 miles?
hell I dont care what is happening 30 miles away.
 
Anyone, the Chinese, etc.
And I'd think it'd be nice to know you're going to be having guests before they show up at your front door while you're shagging the wife.

That has to be simply the most well thought out, lucid, intelligent argument I have ever heard.
I am at a loss for words.
(SARC OFF)
 
The only thing I would really want to protect would be my portable speaker, my tablet with a few thousand hours of music, and the means to charge it.

As BigPaul points out, if there is no infrastructure not much use.

Comms, maybe. But am I really going to care about what is going on a 1,000 miles away, or even 100 miles?
Music is a good prep! Morale is just as important as food.

All civilization, even down to the most remote tribes, typically depend on teamwork and bartering to achieve a higher level of comfort. When SHTF, most of us will likely be fine as recluse family units living in reasonable isolation, but as time passes, you may want to hear what the rest of the world is doing and perhaps reach out to it for something whether it be for resources you do not have or just comradery. Two things are certain. 1- living in isolation with the same people, never escaping their presence, tends to lead to a level of comfortability in disagreement and subsequent hostility amongst friends and family, and 2- loneliness and a desire to interact, even for the most introverted of people out there.
 
I have never understood this single mindedness within the prepper community: There will be only one EMP attack.
It never occurs to anyone that the "enemy" would launch a secondary EMP strike 72-96 hours later. About then is when most local, state and federal governments, and the military would have the basics of their C4 back on line.
Then, WHAMO! The secondary strike.

So, if you have survived the primary strike, sitting there, generator going, got your comms up and running, patting yourself on the back . . . WHAMO!
It is not like the "enemy" is going to send you a personal message via morse code.
It is what I would do.

Also, I am fully aware of what RADBAN can do, to include spoofing.
 
Music is a good prep! Morale is just as important as food.

All civilization, even down to the most remote tribes, typically depend on teamwork and bartering to achieve a higher level of comfort. When SHTF, most of us will likely be fine as recluse family units living in reasonable isolation, but as time passes, you may want to hear what the rest of the world is doing and perhaps reach out to it for something whether it be for resources you do not have or just comradery. Two things are certain. 1- living in isolation with the same people, never escaping their presence, tends to lead to a level of comfortability in disagreement and subsequent hostility amongst friends and family, and 2- loneliness and a desire to interact, even for the most introverted of people out there.

As it is, we visit our neighbors on a even so-called COVID lockdown on a regular basis. Sure, we might have to walk to their house, rather than drive, but the walk will do us some good. I expect we will be doing a lot of it.
I expect we will be doing a lot more chatting with the Amish then we currently do.

Know what is going to affect me a lot more than what is going on in DC, or in LA? The weather.
 
I have never understood this single mindedness within the prepper community: There will be only one EMP attack.
It never occurs to anyone that the "enemy" would launch a secondary EMP strike 72-96 hours later. About then is when most local, state and federal governments, and the military would have the basics of their C4 back on line.
Then, WHAMO! The secondary strike.

So, if you have survived the primary strike, sitting there, generator going, got your comms up and running, patting yourself on the back . . . WHAMO!
It is not like the "enemy" is going to send you a personal message via morse code.
It is what I would do.

Also, I am fully aware of what RADBAN can do, to include spoofing.
If it is from a solar flare, then yes, there will only be one. But if the problem is man-made, then it will be localized to a very small area, not the entire country. Certain infrastructure will be targeted, it will not be a blanket attack. There are two ways to make an EMP, nuclear blast and explosively pumped (with conventional explosives) flux compression devices. Both are extremely expensive.
 
If it is from a solar flare, then yes, there will only be one. But if the problem is man-made, then it will be localized to a very small area, not the entire country. Certain infrastructure will be targeted, it will not be a blanket attack. There are two ways to make an EMP, nuclear blast and explosively pumped (with conventional explosives) flux compression devices. Both are extremely expensive.

Yes, they are expensive.
Russia and China have more than a few at their disposal.

When I say strike, that is not limited to a single device, but could be two or more.
 
The only thing I would really want to protect would be my portable speaker, my tablet with a few thousand hours of music, and the means to charge it.

Comms, maybe. But am I really going to care about what is going on a 1,000 miles away, or even 100 miles?

Comms definately! Also a few solar pocket calculators may come in handy? I have some small MP3 players and a million lectures and music mp3's I wouldn't mind listening to in retirement. My video collection! My radiation detectors definitely! My LED torches. The list is long and they are all stand-alone technologies basically. I could go back to reading books in candle light if I had to but the hard won tech we have today would be much nicer to use.

I even have a few small solar regulators packed away, just enough to charge batteries for the above items. Most of this stuff fit's in 500g coffee tins and they seal well against emp/cme events. I even have a couple of huge cabin biscuit tins that have excellent seals. Cages can be problematic, I leave those for the experimenters.
 
If it is from a solar flare, then yes, there will only be one. But if the problem is man-made, then it will be localized to a very small area, not the entire country. Certain infrastructure will be targeted, it will not be a blanket attack. There are two ways to make an EMP, nuclear blast and explosively pumped (with conventional explosives) flux compression devices. Both are extremely expensive.

Consider this, if you were the "enemy" launching an EMP strike on the US, would you half-arse it? Or go all in?
 
Comms definately! Also a few solar pocket calculators may come in handy? I have some small MP3 players and a million lectures and music mp3's I wouldn't mind listening to in retirement. My video collection! My radiation detectors definitely! My LED torches. The list is long and they are all stand-alone technologies basically. I could go back to reading books in candle light if I had to but the hard won tech we have today would be much nicer to use.

I even have a few small solar regulators packed away, just enough to charge batteries for the above items. Most of this stuff fit's in 500g coffee tins and they seal well against emp/cme events. I even have a couple of huge cabin biscuit tins that have excellent seals. Cages can be problematic, I leave those for the experimenters.

LOL!
That is quite the list.

Per my USMC training, always go the most simplest, low tech, i.e. hard way. Usually leads to less complication, less resource consumption, and is the easiest.
Video is nice. But I prefer books, on hand. I have one room that is a library. And I need more shelves for more books. Besides, I can loan or trade with my Amish neighbors books vs a podcast/video.
 
Video is nice. But I prefer books, on hand. I have one room that is a library. And I need more shelves for more books. Besides, I can loan or trade with my Amish neighbors books vs a podcast/video.

I have a heap of printed books as well, and probably read them as much as I read off the computer. But even though I have books like "Solar Energy and Building" by Szokolay, the textbook for building passive/heated heated homes, I have not read much of it. It's a fall back, a great tool in an energy starved world but too much hard work to bother with even today. For me at least. It was written in 1975 around the time of the first oil crises when it was obvious to all concerned that the world's stocks of fossil fuels were limited and would eventually runout, in all practical terms, sometime in the 21st century.

Back then long-term thinking was encouraged, but not since then. Today people, if they even know about it, believe oil depletion is not an issue. Politicians and industry has lied to the masses about this and no one has prepared. They should have built those better homes but no one wanted to pay the price. The did quite the opposite in fact, just look at the garbage built in the last two decades that passes for homes. But like I said, I don't care because I bought an older brick home with good insulative properties and am happy to burn wood in winter and use my solar electricity to cool it.

I agree in principle with this"
always go the most simplest, low tech, i.e. hard way. Usually leads to less complication,

In the modern world we all use hitech, posting here is an example. These technologies were hard won, as I said, and worth protecting, at least enough to see me out. Others can make their own arrangements. I for one an not going to live in the stoneage until I am forced to by decree or circumstances. It's all fine and dandy to mill grain by hand, telling yourself how smart and resilient you are, but if 20 years later you are still doing that and the electricity is still on, well you are a Luddite in my opinion.
 
Books, that is interesting. I keep a small library of survival books packed away. Good point about a second EMP blast! That would finish off any organized defence. Me, I am going to buy a horse!
 
I know we shouldn't pay too much attention to hollywood guff, but they seem to have got it right in this clip from 'The Day After' where cars and a motorbike are stranded on the highway because an enemy EMP blast has fried their ignitions-

 
Hey Dropship....I wasn't terribly impressed with the "Survivors" series, but I did like the "Jericho" series. Did you see that?
The one set in Kansas where the US gets nuked and Cheyenne becomes the new capital?

That is a good one to show how the apocalypse could happen where the ones behind it profit from it. That's what I call a "managed apocalypse" vs. a natural one that humans can't control. I spend a lot of time coming up with scenarios and trying to decide which would be worse. Certainly for EMPs then a solar flare would be the most likely natural source and there are several ways someone might cause one artificially, including using nuclear weapons.
 

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