Healthcare

[Proud Prepper]

I disagree, I think obama genuinely wanted a good plan and had no hidden agenda. The lobbyist and republicans intentionally picked at it until it wasn’t any good anymore. It all goes back to both sides willing to sabotage anything the other side does. Just think if we all worked together for the better of the country what could be accomplished.

Your love for Obama is disturbing....

 

[Brent S]

Your love for Obama is disturbing....

Thank you!

 

[Brent S]

Seriously, I think he had good intentions. I certainly don’t agree with all his ideas, like that stimulus crap. I also don’t think celebrating transgenders like they are hero’s or something. Sure, acceptance and not harming anyone, but celebrating? As far as the environment goes he was a great advocate. I also respect how he worked with other world leaders, and the fact that he had a lot more class than ‘he who’s name we shouldn’t mention’...

 

[DrHenley]

I disagree, I think obama genuinely wanted a good plan and had no hidden agenda.

“I happen to be a proponent of a single payer universal health care program… A single payer health care plan, a universal health care plan. And that’s what I’d like to see. But as all of you know, we may not get there immediately"
Barak Obama, 2003

What are not legitimate concerns are those being put forward claiming a public option is somehow a Trojan horse for a single-payer system. I’ll be honest. There are countries where a single-payer system may be working. But I believe — and I’ve even taken some flak from members of my own party for this belief — that it is important for us to build on our traditions here in the United States. So, when you hear the naysayers claim that I’m trying to bring about government-run health care, know this – they are not telling the truth.
Barak Obama, 2009

 

[Kevin L]

I've worked in healthcare for almost 30 years, and I wish I had something constructive to offer.

Obamacare seemed like something that was good in theory, but like so many things in medicine...a failure in practice.

I don't believe in socialized medicine as a total concept, but that doesn't mean that certian specific things can't be socialized.

Cuba, for example, has--with its poor infrastructure and poor people and Communist ideals--has completely eliminated neonatal transmission of syphillis. Maybe there were policies that are inconsistant with our democratic ideals, but eliminating neonatal syphillis is a hell of an accomplishment and, as a paramedic, I tend to think in practical terms over theory.

And yes, the World Health Organization has confirmed Cuba's claims.

Healthcare in the U.S. is so expensive because--in part--of lawyers. Malpractice is a big business, and malpractice insurance rates for physicians and institutions are astronomically high, and the expense is passed onto the consumer.

If anyone is a fan of the original Star Trek television series, I would like to point out the episode with the kids from Triacus who's parents were killed by a non-coporeal alien who materialized and had the kids chant and shake their fists to incite the crew to violence (episode 59, "And The Children Shall Lead").

This non-coporeal alien was played by an actor named Melvin Belli, who was also an accomplished attorney who tried to bring in the California Zodiac serial killer (offering to represent him in court for free) by communicating with him by phone.

Belli made a fortune (multi-multi-multi millionaire) pioneering medical malpractice lawsuits. He revolutionized this kind of law, and other lawyers (being greedy, bottom-feeding intestinal parasites) read his law books, took his courses, and--as you might predict--was part of creating the mess that medicine is in now.

I find myself in the peculiar position of admiring him and, at the same time, despising him as a piece of walking dogsh-t.

 

[TexasFreedom]

To be fair here, Obama tried to get both parties together to make a good plan. The two sides hate each other so much that they couldn’t agree on much, leaving what was passed. The whole system sucks and there is too much money being made for any real improvements to happen. Sorry, the system is broken and corrupt, you can’t blame that on one man. With the continued division and literally hatred being perpetuated nothing will ever get done.

Obamacare is 100% the product of democrats. They had the super-majority and could have made it anything they wanted. So do not blame republicans for anything in Obamacare. And yes, the full blame falls on Obama's shoulders.
​

Dems keep talking about the 10-20 million "who now have health care". I've never hear anyone quote how many millions have since lost their health care due to out-of-control costs. People like GreyGhost. People like me. I'm too 'rich' to get any help. But it'd be $16k+ per year for horrible insurance with a $10k deductible. Reality is, and always has been, that when gov't gets involved in anything, it becomes slow, inefficient, and full of corruption and problems. Ta da, that is Obamascare! 10 letters. Just like "Train Wreck". Or "Disastrous". Or "Death Board".

Anyone who still thinks Obamacare is a good idea is blindfolded.

 

[Gazrok]

Obamacare is 100% the product of democrats. They had the super-majority and could have made it anything they wanted. So do not blame republicans for anything in Obamacare. And yes, the full blame falls on Obama's shoulders.

That's a pretty fair point.

No they didn't underestimate anything. It was designed to fail, and then they planned to step in and say "Well it's so bad now, the only fix is going to 'single payer' "

I think the version they ended up with (versus the original), was likely designed to fail, but part of that was also the inability to correctly forecast the results. Whether that was intentional or not..... ???

The point is, many of us who HAD coverage already, saw our premiums go WAY up. Mine alone went up $100 a month. I'm sorry, but that's a) not sustainable, b) not what I signed up for, or voted for, and c) simply not in the budget. Currently, it's already way too much for me to be added to my wife's....(I'm a contracted employee at present, so have no such benefits)...

So count me in to those who lost coverage. And I'm also too "rich" LOL (even though paycheck to paycheck) to get a decent priced ObamaCare.

The bottom line is that we need a hybrid system. One that can take care of everyone, but one that still has the incentives for folks seeking private insurance, etc. Likewise, there has to be profit incentives for folks to develop new treatments, new techniques, etc.

Full state run, or full private, neither is the answer alone.

 

[DrHenley]

I think the version they ended up with (versus the original), was likely designed to fail, but part of that was also the inability to correctly forecast the results. Whether that was intentional or not..... ???

The claims and promises they made were mathematically impossible.

 

[Gazrok]

Fair enough point. I just never underestimate the incompetence of government though...

 

[TexasFreedom]

The point is, many of us who HAD coverage already, saw our premiums go WAY up. Mine alone went up $100 a month. I'm sorry, but that's a) not sustainable, b) not what I signed up for, or voted for, and c) simply not in the budget.

Only $100? That's nothing. I don't remember the exact numbers. But before Obamacare, it was maybe $400/month for 2 people with a $10k deductible. The following year it went to $600. Then $800. Then $1200 and the sky from there. No illness, nothing special. When it hit $15k/year, I said no thank you.

 

[Mountain trapper]

"Health care" used to be so simple in this country. If you wanted insurance you'd get a job with a company that provided insurance. Every company that I worked for covered each employee and spouse 100%. Additional family members were just a few dollars. The deductibles were very reasonable too. Since I retired I'm now on my wife's insurance. It used to be very reasonable.....until the government got involved. Since I'm on her policy her premium has gone up a couple thousand per month, plus the deductible is $3,000 - $5,000. I've never come close to using that much health care. After the first of the year I'm going to have her drop me from her insurance and save thousands. I have better things to do with my money than give it to some insurance company. I'll be self insured and pocket the difference.

 

[Mountain trapper]

"Health care" used to be so simple in this country. If you wanted insurance you'd get a job with a company that provided insurance. Every company that I worked for covered each employee and spouse 100%. Additional family members were just a few dollars. The deductibles were very reasonable too. Since I retired I'm now on my wife's insurance. It used to be very reasonable.....until the government got involved. Since I'm on her policy her premium has gone up a couple thousand per month, plus the deductible is $3,000 - $5,000. I've never come close to using that much health care. After the first of the year I'm going to have her drop me from her insurance and save thousands. I have better things to do with my money than give it to some insurance company. I'll be self insured and pocket the difference.

 

[user 7704]

I'm throwing this under my healthcare thread.

Some of you may remember me complaining about being ill and going to the ER.

I got a letter from the Health Dept on Saturday saying they need to talk to me. I'm thinking one of my husband's friends had an STD or something. Lol

Well, they isolated my bacteria and it's a food born bacteria with a really long name. They quizzed me for 45 minutes about every food I eat etc. Mostly raw or undercooked foods and drinks. (Dairy, salads and poultry). They said I had done a good job using the Lysol, peroxide, etc. Since no one else in family became sick I was correct to stay sequestered upstairs.

They said the bacteria could stay in my intestines for weeks or months, but I should start feeling better. Come on Geritol.

That's all. I don't know why I felt this important but in prepping we need to make sure that food is properly prepared. SEE THIS IS ABOUT PREPPING.

Oh, they said that even one drop of raw chicken juice carried the amount of bacteria to make someone ill.

 

[Doreena]

I still think that the Koch backed health care study that calculated the costs of a universal healthcare system vs what we have today was great...it found that the universal healthcare was much cheaper.....if you are not familiar with this study I will gladly find you a link....


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[user 7704]

"Health care" used to be so simple in this country. If you wanted insurance you'd get a job with a company that provided insurance. Every company that I worked for covered each employee and spouse 100%. Additional family members were just a few dollars. The deductibles were very reasonable too. Since I retired I'm now on my wife's insurance. It used to be very reasonable.....until the government got involved. Since I'm on her policy her premium has gone up a couple thousand per month, plus the deductible is $3,000 - $5,000. I've never come close to using that much health care. After the first of the year I'm going to have her drop me from her insurance and save thousands. I have better things to do with my money than give it to some insurance company. I'll be self insured and pocket the difference.

Arctic, before you drop, make you you can get self insurance. We were cancelled my 2 companies because they have stopped insuring single families. The have to have companies with a minimum of 3 employees.

We had to make a family LLC and put us all to work, just to get coverage.

 

[user 7704]

I still think that the Koch backed health care study that calculated the costs of a universal healthcare system vs what we have today was great...it found that the universal healthcare was much cheaper.....if you are not familiar with this study I will gladly find you a link....


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They need to compete against other companies so premiums will lower.

 

[Doreena]

They need to compete against other companies so premiums will lower.

They would be ... that is what the study is about. Everyone covered, and cheaper than what the what everyone who is currently covered is paying....no premiums.

Of course, that is a projection, and the assessment from Politifact (one of the sources rated non-partisan) says that the results could vary. But to me, even if the costs were the same and everyone was covered, that is a win. The savings come from an assumption using the currently accepted discount rates that health care facilities currently offer to insurance companies...

https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-...nservative-study-show-big-savings-bernie-san/


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[Proud Prepper]

How would medicaid for all effect the quality of healthcare? When has projected costs ever not been under the actual costs?

 

[tmttactical]

@Doreena As government involvement increase, so does the costs. Please feel free to name any project involved with the government that has lowered cost and maintained the same level of service.

 

[user 7704]

Some guy on Twitter just said "you're ignorant. You can change jobs and take your insurance with you. For you to say otherwise is wrong"

My response "I'm guessing you flunked out of the Dale Carnegie "How To Win Friends and Influence People " course you were taking.

What a goob. You may disagree, but you don't have to make an ass out of yourself.

 

[Doreena]

@Doreena As government involvement increase, so does the costs. Please feel free to name any project involved with the government that has lowered cost and maintained the same level of service.

I know, but so many other countries have done this very successfully, we would have to follow the best models to set it up.


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[Doreena]

How would medicaid for all effect the quality of healthcare? When has projected costs ever not been under the actual costs?

See my reply to UrbanPrep


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[Proud Prepper]

I know, but so many other countries have done this very successfully, we would have to follow the best models to set it up.


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So your saying no one from those countries you say are very successful goes to other countries for there healthcare or uses private healthcare services?
We would to agree on what very successful is.

 

[Doreena]

So your saying no one from those countries you say are very successful goes to other countries for there healthcare or uses private healthcare services?
We would to agree on what very successful is.

Of this list of 16 best universal health care, only Canada, #16, mentions going elsewhere. https://nordic.businessinsider.com/the-16-countries-with-the-worlds-best-healthcare-systems-2017-1/

Lists of the countries with the best healthcare show the US far behind other countries....we can do better.


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[Proud Prepper]

Of this list of 16 best universal health care, only Canada, #16, mentions going elsewhere. https://nordic.businessinsider.com/the-16-countries-with-the-worlds-best-healthcare-systems-2017-1/

Lists of the countries with the best healthcare show the US far behind other countries....we can do better.


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Yes we can do better.

Thats because Canada has a single payer universal health care system, the worst of the 3 types. The reason those other countries can afford the costs is the US pays the largests share of defence that protects those countries and pays for the UN, medical research, etc... if we adopt the same system and pay 35-40% of our gdp on a single payer healthcare system like the socialist democrats want, who will pay for those things? I would like a system similer to France, but not pay for any illegals. Its the illegals that has broken our healthcare system, which is done by the democrats. Research what california spends on illegals. Then subtract that amount from there spending. California would would not be bankrupt. The wealth gap is the highest in california for a reason.

 

[Doreena]

Yes we can do better.

Thats because Canada has a single payer universal health care system, the worst of the 3 types. The reason those other countries can afford the costs is the US pays the largests share of defence that protects those countries and pays for the UN, medical research, etc... if we adopt the same system and pay 35-40% of our gdp on a single payer healthcare system like the socialist democrats want, who will pay for those things? I would like a system similer to France, but not pay for any illegals. Its the illegals that has broken our healthcare system, which is done by the democrats. Research what california spends on illegals. Then subtract that amount from there spending. California would would not be bankrupt. The wealth gap is the highest in california for a reason.

Seems that is a myth...let me help you out...
“Aviva Chomsky, a professor at Salem State College, states that "Early studies in California and in the Southwest and in the Southeast...have come to the same conclusions. Immigrants, legal and illegal, are more likely to pay taxes than they are to use public services. Illegal immigrants are not eligible for most public services and live in fear of revealing themselves to government authorities. Households headed by illegal immigrants use less than half the amount of federal services that households headed by documented immigrants or citizens make use of."[36]”

“The Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy released a report in February 2016, stating that 11 million illegal immigrants in the United States are paying annually an estimated amount of $11.64 billion in state and local taxes, "on average an estimated 8 percent of their incomes."

https://medium.com/@marcus.ruiz.eva...ens-and-america-gets-a-good-deal-2e25b528c855

And, lastly, from politifact, that has an in depth look at the issue..

https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-...mmigration-policy-impose-300-billion-annuall/

The bottom line I get from these is that there is a cost for the illegal aliens but it also comes with benefits, it is a complex issue, and to blame California’s economic issues solely on one group of people is to make the issue way to simple.

Removing the undocumented or illegals from nearly ANY state including my own (AL) and even NE states like VT that rely on drudge labor ...not to mention the obvious ones like FL and CA ...would have a direct and negative impact on food prices. I know many of us here are striving to produce their own food, but how many of us are 100% self sufficient in that area?

Also, keep in mind who really uses the most help...the most goes to poor rural white folks...


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[brandx]

I've worked in healthcare for almost 30 years, and I wish I had something constructive to offer.

Obamacare seemed like something that was good in theory, but like so many things in medicine...a failure in practice.

I don't believe in socialized medicine as a total concept, but that doesn't mean that certian specific things can't be socialized.

Cuba, for example, has--with its poor infrastructure and poor people and Communist ideals--has completely eliminated neonatal transmission of syphillis. Maybe there were policies that are inconsistant with our democratic ideals, but eliminating neonatal syphillis is a hell of an accomplishment and, as a paramedic, I tend to think in practical terms over theory.

And yes, the World Health Organization has confirmed Cuba's claims.

Healthcare in the U.S. is so expensive because--in part--of lawyers. Malpractice is a big business, and malpractice insurance rates for physicians and institutions are astronomically high, and the expense is passed onto the consumer.

If anyone is a fan of the original Star Trek television series, I would like to point out the episode with the kids from Triacus who's parents were killed by a non-coporeal alien who materialized and had the kids chant and shake their fists to incite the crew to violence (episode 59, "And The Children Shall Lead").

This non-coporeal alien was played by an actor named Melvin Belli, who was also an accomplished attorney who tried to bring in the California Zodiac serial killer (offering to represent him in court for free) by communicating with him by phone.

Belli made a fortune (multi-multi-multi millionaire) pioneering medical malpractice lawsuits. He revolutionized this kind of law, and other lawyers (being greedy, bottom-feeding intestinal parasites) read his law books, took his courses, and--as you might predict--was part of creating the mess that medicine is in now.

I find myself in the peculiar position of admiring him and, at the same time, despising him as a piece of walking dogsh-t.

People expect too much, then when their false expectations aren't realized they hire a lawyer and sue. That is why nurses spend more time documenting than actually providing care.

 

[brandx]

I'm throwing this under my healthcare thread.

Some of you may remember me complaining about being ill and going to the ER.

I got a letter from the Health Dept on Saturday saying they need to talk to me. I'm thinking one of my husband's friends had an STD or something. Lol

Well, they isolated my bacteria and it's a food born bacteria with a really long name. They quizzed me for 45 minutes about every food I eat etc. Mostly raw or undercooked foods and drinks. (Dairy, salads and poultry). They said I had done a good job using the Lysol, peroxide, etc. Since no one else in family became sick I was correct to stay sequestered upstairs.

They said the bacteria could stay in my intestines for weeks or months, but I should start feeling better. Come on Geritol.

That's all. I don't know why I felt this important but in prepping we need to make sure that food is properly prepared. SEE THIS IS ABOUT PREPPING.

Oh, they said that even one drop of raw chicken juice carried the amount of bacteria to make someone ill.

Hopefully the lining of your intestines will recover properly. My Mother had something of the sort, she had to be hospitalized, her intestinal lining sloughing off, she was not herself for weeks and I am not totally sure she has returned to full health since that time a few years ago. I can see Cholera being on the rebound. Consuming a small amount of a bad thing is really bad.

 

[Kevin L]

People expect too much, then when their false expectations aren't realized they hire a lawyer and sue. That is why nurses spend more time documenting than actually providing care.

I agree with this. Another point is that our culture seems to be edging towsrd a lack of personal responsibility.

I knew a patient who sued his physician because the doctor missed subtle signs of lung cancer.

Yet the patient smoked like a chimney for decades, and the doctor kept telling him--for years--that there would be horrible consequences.

If this patient didn't want lung cancer, then he should have quit smoking. In my mind, it wasn't the doctor's fault.

People need to be accountable for their own health. They need to follow a doctor's instructions, they need to avoid things (like smoking, excess alcohol use, food issues, and so on) that they know are bad for them, they need to exercise, and so on.

Our culture rewards chronic stupidity by finding in the plaintiff's favor when people sue their doctors over things like this.

 

[user 7704]

Hopefully the lining of your intestines will recover properly. My Mother had something of the sort, she had to be hospitalized, her intestinal lining sloughing off, she was not herself for weeks and I am not totally sure she has returned to full health since that time a few years ago. I can see Cholera being on the rebound. Consuming a small amount of a bad thing is really bad.

Ewwwww. Lol. It was not fun and I still have more recovery to do.