Healthcare

[Squirtgunsquirter]

The VA has never done me wrong. Maybe it's where I go? Nice place, no lines, short waiting periods, knowledgeable folks willing to help cut red tape... I don't expect free, no cost health care from them, and they exceed my expectations whenever I go. Always cheaper and nicer than I expect.

As far as Universal Health Care and the system, and other countries pulling it off... We spend too much on war. We spend too much maintaining a conventional (and huge) military, in the face of a changing battlefield reality.

We didnt "defeat" ISIS on the battlefield. The US main stream media forgot about them, and they ceased to exist.

I'm saying, by the way, that they were a created enemy to begin with. Another enemy to justify funding the next 6 Trillion dollar intervention.

How is it we can spend enough to fund health care for all without raising taxes, but when we talking about funding health care for all we always have to raise taxes?

I'm against universal health care in principal, but something sure isn't right.

 

[Brent S]

I have received excellent care from the VA. Yes, I’ve heard a lot of the horror stories and am sure there are bad people in the system. Personally though, I have always been treated with respect and had excellent care from them. I also will note that I always treat them with respect too. A lot of times in life you get what you give.

 

[tmttactical]

I understand what you are saying about our government now, but yet other countries have it working...you think that we will never have a system that could be reformed?


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Yes I do think we can reform our medical system but it won't be one run by the government. The system is fixable but not with the concept you can have a free lunch. Fix the big pharmaceutical companies (rate mandates) remove the barriers to a National Group Insurance plan, special plans for pre-existing conditions, higher rate plans for self inflicted health problems (smokers, obesity, alcohol / drug addition, etc.) There are fixes but not without some pain for some group. So the real problem is that nobody wants to fix the problems if it affects a portion of their base.

Understand other countries started out with a different medical system and a different government type and different tax base. You can have a great system if the people are willing to pay 80 or 90 percent of their income in taxes. You cannot compare different systems without comparing all the different part of the equation. The same as you cannot compare two different automobiles, you cannot compare two different countries medical system. Different, tax base, different attitudes, different financial needs, different cultural styles. Too many difference to say this system worked in Denmark or Sweden, so it will work in the USA. Vague promises do not work. Forcing other to subsidize the poor choice of other will not work. But there really are ways to fix our system, so keep fighting for it but DO NOT BUY INTO THE FREE LUNCH crap. There is no absolutely fair system for everybody and it will certainly not be free. Never has been and never will be. Somebody always has to pay the bill.

 

[DrPrepper1]

Yes I do think we can reform our medical system but it won't be one run by the government. The system is fixable but not with the concept you can have a free lunch. Fix the big pharmaceutical companies (rate mandates) remove the barriers to a National Group Insurance plan, special plans for pre-existing conditions, higher rate plans for self inflicted health problems (smokers, obesity, alcohol / drug addition, etc.) There are fixes but not without some pain for some group. So the real problem is that nobody wants to fix the problems if it affects a portion of their base.

Understand other countries started out with a different medical system and a different government type and different tax base. You can have a great system if the people are willing to pay 80 or 90 percent of their income in taxes. You cannot compare different systems without comparing all the different part of the equation. The same as you cannot compare two different automobiles, you cannot compare two different countries medical system. Different, tax base, different attitudes, different financial needs, different cultural styles. Too many difference to say this system worked in Denmark or Sweden, so it will work in the USA. Vague promises do not work. Forcing other to subsidize the poor choice of other will not work. But there really are ways to fix our system, so keep fighting for it but DO NOT BUY INTO THE FREE LUNCH crap. There is no absolutely fair system for everybody and it will certainly not be free. Never has been and never will be. Somebody always has to pay the bill.

Well said.

 

[DrHenley]

Here is a website that you can put your doctor's name in and see how much money they have taken from pharmaceutical companies.

$126

 

[DrPrepper1]

$126

You have a doctor with integrity. I see a LOT of abuse go on daily... it’s disgusting.

 

[tmttactical]

I see my doctors twice a year and that is just to maintain my prescriptions (diabetic). It is not that I don't trust doctors but I also do not revere them. They are just people in white coats, honest or corrupt, again just people.

 

[Brent S]

I like the fact that you threw out some good ideas in your post. Too many just complain and say NO. The whole point of a discussion is to come up with ideas to help a situation, not just to argue. I really liked the idea of charging more for self inflicted issues from smoking and obesity and such. I do think a government run plan could work as long as it was set up right to begin with. The problem is most of the politicians will never agree to good ideas and only want what either lines their pockets or favors their state. Obama did not write the health care act. He got politicians together from both sides and told them to come up with a plan. The final plan they made was all they could agree to, which is why it was far from perfect. I also agree that taking on the greed from big Pharma is a big part of the equation. Again though, so much is spent on lobbying politicians that it ensures nothing will get done. I’m for private companies doing the drug research for new medicines as they tend to be more efficient than government workers, yet I think there should be limits on profits allowed since this is for the good of all mankind. Greed is a strong instinct. Mankind has come a long way with technology but hasn’t progressed much with our basic emotions. That’s why I am a prepper and don’t feel very optimistic about the future.

 

[TexasFreedom]

I've said this repeatedly. Big Pharma own the media. No harder than 'follow the money'. Every other commercial on TV is for some odd illness and some drug for it. If you go see your doctor, he'll recommend this drug, you will not surprise your doctor by saying "I saw a commercial for drug JKL from company XYZ, would it help with my ABC illness?" So why do big pharma run these commercials?

SO simple an answer, the media are beholden to them. If NBC were to run a series of 'investigative journalism' shows exposing the massive over-charging of prescription drugs in the US, people would rebel. Why can you buy XYZ's pill JKL for $2 in Canada but the same pill is $400 in the US? But somebody thinks we can do this AND have reasonable healthcare costs? The US is paying for drug research that the rest of the world is getting for free. So the drug companies run lots of ads to prevent these 'investigations' and keep people clueless. It's not a hard connect-the-dots game.

And if I were a big pharma CEO, this is exactly what I would do. Maximize my company's profits without breaking laws...

But to get the truth on some of this, you need to read some media that aren't funded by drug companies.

 

[user 7704]

The only point I want to make is that Big Pharma does not get credit for all of the billions of dollars they spend on research and development.

The can spend a billion dollars and suddenly something goes wrong and they have to shut it down for the good of the people. But, that is a billion dollars that they have lost and have to make it up somehow.

I agree the price of meds is outrageous, but they also need credit for their good works too.

 

[Brent S]

The only point I want to make is that Big Pharma does not get credit for all of the billions of dollars they spend on research and development.

The can spend a billion dollars and suddenly something goes wrong and they have to shut it down for the good of the people. But, that is a billion dollars that they have lost and have to make it up somehow.

I agree the price of meds is outrageous, but they also need credit for their good works too.

Like I said, they do run much more effectively than the govt run labs working on finding new drugs. That being said, what’s wrong with just being profitable vs insanely profitable.
One other idea to lower costs would be to loose the threat of multimillion dollar law suits. Every time there’s a huge settlement against them it just raises the cost for us all.

 

[Doreena]

Like I said, they do run much more effectively than the govt run labs working on finding new drugs. That being said, what’s wrong with just being profitable vs insanely profitable.
One other idea to lower costs would be to loose the threat of multimillion dollar law suits. Every time there’s a huge settlement against them it just raises the cost for us all.

And here I was going to suggest basically making the labs non profit! I can’t say how efficient or not such labs are, but I have read that some other counties have had great success with that system. Of course the sticky part would be the conversion to a whole different system. What I read is that Cuban labs are much more advanced in their treatment for cancer, but when it was offered to the US the for profits wanted none of their help.


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[lonewolf]

Many countries have government run health care. I don't know that these government run healthcare programs always the best. There are a lot of things you hear from people in those countries that talk about the downside.

One obstacle that other countries haven't had to deal with in creating their own healthcare, is pharmaceutical companies. Politicians keep talking about changing healthcare, but the never talk about taking on the big pharmaceutical companies. These pharmaceutical companies spend millions of dollars on commercials, drug reps, lunches for the entire doctor's office staff etc..and then the American consumer pays $4-$8 per pill sometimes even more. That doesn't happen in other countries.

Here is a website that you can put your doctor's name in and see how much money they have taken from pharmaceutical companies in the way of free lunches and other gifts. https://projects.propublica.org/docdollars/

My doctor is on there for $180.00. He allows only certain reps to bring coffee occasionally. The doctor across the hall from him is on there for almost 10K. Cardiologist and other high paid specialist are even worse.
You might just think by not going to a doctor on the list would solve the problem, but the drug companies pass all that off to you and me in the form of price per pill and Medicare tax dollars.

Here is another recent example of a drug on 60 minutes that cost $80.00 to manufacture, but they charge over $4000.00 for it. You would think that a lot of scripts wouldn't get filled with such a price tag, but the prescriptions for this medication have skyrocketed thanks to bit of a scam the pharmaceutical company is running. If they can do it with this drug, the can do it with others, and in fact they have.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/evzio-...ug-naloxone-with-a-4000-price-tag-60-minutes/

I think we need to fix this before we change the current model..even though the current model isn't a good one. It is easy to look at other countries and say, "Well we could just apply that here." The problem is we aren't are England, Switzerland, Germany or any other place. We are America, and we a have unique set of problems. Unfortunately, we have brought on many of these problems and now they are raging out of control like a California wildfire. I see politicians glossing over some of the biggest troublemakers regarding healthcare cost. They want to take control and implement healthcare programs, but they don't want to tackle the elephant in the room. Once we give way to a government run healthcare, if things go further south, we will have little to no recourse.

I am not for government run health care, and I am also not saying it couldn't work, but it would take many years and it would be a large undertaking to do it correctly.

the British national health service isn't perfect and its creaking at the seams with all the "Health Tourists" but at least its free at the point of need, prescriptions aren't cheap its £8 or so for each item but if your a child or over 60 you don't pay, and if you have a lot of pills each month there is a season ticket scheme.

 

[DrPrepper1]

the British national health service isn't perfect and its creaking at the seams with all the "Health Tourists" but at least its free at the point of need, prescriptions aren't cheap its £8 or so for each item but if your a child or over 60 you don't pay, and if you have a lot of pills each month there is a season ticket scheme.

8 pounds? That’s cheap! We can easily pay hundreds of dollars.

 

[lonewolf]

8 pounds? That’s cheap! We can easily pay hundreds of dollars.

for EACH item?? that's crazy.

 

[DrPrepper1]

for EACH item?? that's crazy.

Yes each item. We have one patient that is a diabetic. Her rx cost $900 per month. Her insurance pays 90% so she only has to pay $90 but still whines about it. They don’t cover her pain medication (but she never misses out paying for that) that cost her $400 per month.

 

[lonewolf]

Yes each item. We have one patient that is a diabetic. Her rx cost $900 per month. Her insurance pays 90% so she only has to pay $90 but still whines about it. They don’t cover her pain medication (but she never misses out paying for that) that cost her $400 per month.

blimey! i'll stick with the British system no matter how bad it seems to get.
my dad had BUPA-private insurance- for my mother but she was never well and suffered from a bronchial disorder most of her life.

 

[DrPrepper1]

Yes each item. We have one patient that is a diabetic. Her rx cost $900 per month. Her insurance pays 90% so she only has to pay $90 but still whines about it. They don’t cover her pain medication (but she never misses out paying for that) that cost her $400 per month.

Now we do have a good number of medications that cost about $4.00. But that’s not everything. Most meds do cost more. Those are usually cheaper because they have been around for a long time. Another diabetic patient has meds that cost 2k a month. She goes through her Medicare rx coverage fast and has to pay out of pocket while she is in the donut hole. She gets samples when she can. She gets a 2 month supply from charity, and skips the rest. Nothing for her blood sugar to be at 400.

 

[lonewolf]

a lot of medication here is cheaper over the counter its just the stuff that is only available on prescription which is dearer.
some people will insist on having a prescription for some stuff which is cheaper to buy without one.

 

[DrPrepper1]

blimey! i'll stick with the British system no matter how bad it seems to get.
my dad had BUPA-private insurance- for my mother but she was never well and suffered from a bronchial disorder most of her life.

I bet when you watch your favorite tv program you aren’t bombarded with commercials that tell you abou a new medicine (30 seconds of side effects) and they all end with,” Ask your doctor if medication X is right for you.” They play a ridiculous amount of those over here. .. and we pay for price per pill.

 

[lonewolf]

don't you believe it, adverts amount to about half of each programme and they all seem to be about medical stuff or most of them.

 

[user 7704]

for EACH item?? that's crazy.

Paul, I was taking a med that cost $800 per month. Luckily, my insurance covered it. I didn't take it long. Lol

 

[lonewolf]

Paul, I was taking a med that cost $800 per month. Luckily, my insurance covered it. I didn't take it long. Lol

bloody hell!!!

 

[DrPrepper1]

And here I was going to suggest basically making the labs non profit! I can’t say how efficient or not such labs are, but I have read that some other counties have had great success with that system. Of course the sticky part would be the conversion to a whole different system. What I read is that Cuban labs are much more advanced in their treatment for cancer, but when it was offered to the US the for profits wanted none of their help.


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It was Ronald Reagan that opened the doors on privatization of medical research. I don’t think he had a clue about what the long term consequences would be.

 

[Squirtgunsquirter]

Non profit?

Sounds great! If only we would put aside our ignorance and pride and become communists like Cuba, then we could just force people and companies to work for nothing! Boy, stuff would be cheap then.

Then we could build ****** rubber rafts and escape to a non communist country, just like the Cubans do now!

That'd be swell!

 

[lonewolf]

then your stuck with capitalism and all its faults, trouble is capitalism brings greed.

 

[Doreena]

Non profit?

Sounds great! If only we would put aside our ignorance and pride and become communists like Cuba, then we could just force people and companies to work for nothing! Boy, stuff would be cheap then.

Then we could build ****** rubber rafts and escape to a non communist country, just like the Cubans do now!

That'd be swell!

With all due respect Cuba has one of the best health care systems and the highest literacy rates of the world.


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[Proud Prepper]

With all due respect Cuba has one of the best health care systems and the highest literacy rates of the world.


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Sounds like paradise...
I think you should move there.

 

[Squirtgunsquirter]

With all due respect Cuba has one of the best health care systems and the highest literacy rates of the world.


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You shouldnt respect me. It's unnecessary, and I'm not a good person, I don't deserve your respect.

Cuba rocks the curve with a blazing 99.7% literacy rate. But gets beaten by North Korea, who despite poverty and a massive peasant population, takes the crown with 100% literacy.

Funny thing about communist dictatorships. They self report wild success.
I wonder why?

 

[user 7704]

It's amazing how much they can learn before they put them in the cane fields at age 11.