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Squirtgunsquirter said:
You shouldnt respect me. It's unnecessary, and I'm not a good person, I don't deserve your respect.

Cuba rocks the curve with a blazing 99.7% literacy rate. But gets beaten by North Korea, who despite poverty and a massive peasant population, takes the crown with 100% literacy.

Funny thing about communist dictatorships. They self report wild success.
I wonder why?
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First, you have never done anything to me that makes me not respect you. We may not agree, but that is all. Next, UNESCOreports Cuba’s literacy rate as 99.9... not self reporting. The health care according to the World Health Organization is roughly equivalent to the US. However, it is free,which is a plus. Again, these are not self reported. Even political systems that you do not like have their good points.


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robinjopo said:
The only point I want to make is that Big Pharma does not get credit for all of the billions of dollars they spend on research and development.
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I'm not saying otherwise. And I'm not against them making profits, even big profits. Great for them.

My point is that a pill I can buy in the US for $80/pill is available for $4 in other countries. The US population is paying for all the research and profits, and the rest of the world gets the pills at cost. How can anyone call that a fair system?

And Doreena, I think he makes a really good point. Why don't you move there for a year or two & come back & tell us how great their system really is? Because you won't know unless you're on the inside. Let us know how great a car you can have there. And about how great the housing is. And let us know about freedom of speech.
 
TexasFreedom said:
I'm not saying otherwise. And I'm not against them making profits, even big profits. Great for them.

My point is that a pill I can buy in the US for $80/pill is available for $4 in other countries. The US population is paying for all the research and profits, and the rest of the world gets the pills at cost. How can anyone call that a fair system?

And Doreena, I think he makes a really good point. Why don't you move there for a year or two & come back & tell us how great their system really is? Because you won't know unless you're on the inside. Let us know how great a car you can have there. And about how great the housing is. And let us know about freedom of speech.
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I am not talking about housing. I am not talking about their political system.

If I was facing an illness that the alternatives were to die because I couldn’t afford the cure or live in Cuba and get free treatment, it may very well look like paradise. It is a matter of perspective. Have YOU lived in Cuba, Texas? So you know from the inside it is so bad? Just wondering.

My first choice would be Canada, where I have relatives. It appears the European nations really have the US beat for quality of life, so that might move me in that direction.

What we have in the US is unfair and broken. That is my point...and that there are other options out there.


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@robinjopo

Big Pharma can and should get credit for all their research and development. That is why there are patents and tax deductions. Drug prices should be applied equally. If it costs $4.00 in Europe, then it must cost $4.00 in America. No more price gouging of the different countries or clients. Next a National Insurance group would also help control drug prices, capitalism at it's bests. Pit one big industrial group against the other big industrial group. Keep the government out of any form of administration.
 
Is it just me......i take anything the W.H.O. says with a grain of salt.

I know they are fiction, but tv shows come to mind when I think of the healthcare in Cuba. People building boats to get to US for proper treatment or people getting ill in Cuba and having to perform miracles with lack of technology and medicines. Hollywood is very liberal and loves socialism and communism they try to make them as appealing as possible.
 
robinjopo said:
Is it just me......i take anything the W.H.O. says with a grain of salt.

I know they are fiction, but tv shows come to mind when I think of the healthcare in Cuba. People building boats to get to US for proper treatment or people getting ill in Cuba and having to perform miracles with lack of technology and medicines. Hollywood is very liberal and loves socialism and communism they try to make them as appealing as possible.
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Any reports that come from the United Nations has to be suspect, people can no longer trust the U.N. They have become a self serving and openly manipulative organization. I just finished reading an article where Cuban doctors were refusing to return to Cuba. One Doctor said he would rather stay and sort garbage in Brazil, than return back to Cuba. So how does that equate to Cuba having a great medical system.
 
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How does UNESCO (where I got my numbers) gather the data?

I haven't been in Cuba, but I have been in a few other third world countries, and I can tell you that a UNESCO representative did not sit down and test 100% of Cubans, their children, or anything like that. UNESCO gathers and publishes data provided by member and non member states.

I haven't been in Cuba. but Doreena, neither has UNESCO.
 
Urbanprep said:
@robinjopo

Big Pharma can and should get credit for all their research and development.
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My daughter's life would be miserable if not for Big Pharma. Yes, their motive is profit. But that profit motive made them develop a drug that allows her to live a normal life. It never would have been developed under government run medicine. Her Rx is around $6,000 per month. Her insurance pays it. They squawk about it, and make the doctors keep filing forms to justify it, but they do pay. For people that don't have insurance, or have massive copays, the big evil drug company has a financial assistance program and in some cases will pay nearly all the costs.
 
DrHenley said:
My daughter's life would be miserable if not for Big Pharma. Yes, their motive is profit. But that profit motive made them develop a drug that allows her to live a normal life. It never would have been developed under government run medicine. Her Rx is around $6,000 per month. Her insurance pays it. They squawk about it, and make the doctors keep filing forms to justify it, but they do pay. For people that don't have insurance, or have massive copays, the big evil drug company has a financial assistance program and in some cases will pay nearly all the costs.
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They gave me a card for the $800 meds I was taking. I only paid $25. It lasted one year.
 
But we do need to change something.

Because someone pays that difference. The drug companies don't eat it. If the government pays 700 out of 1000, whatever the program, then we all pay for that together.

If it cost 10$ per pill, after all the costs were factored in, to make it, and they charge 20$, great. If they charge 500, something's not right.

Most of these medications are available in other countries for much less, I think. Not because of socialism, or anything, but because people just can't afford to pay more, if the drug companies want in that market, they have to take what they can get?
 
Squirtgunsquirter said:
But we do need to change something.
Because someone pays that difference. The drug companies don't eat it. If the government pays 700 out of 1000, whatever the program, then we all pay for that together.
If it cost 10$ per pill, after all the costs were factored in, to make it, and they charge 20$, great. If they charge 500, something's not right.
Most of these medications are available in other countries for much less, I think. Not because of socialism, or anything, but because people just can't afford to pay more, if the drug companies want in that market, they have to take what they can get?
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Drug companies will not sell at a loss. Let's take drug D made by company C. Assume it cost $1billion to create/test drug D. And it costs $3 per pill to make it today. And let's assume over the next 10 years they recover their costs, and they have an expected market of selling 20 million pills.

Simple math. Development costs would be $1bil / 20mil, or $50 per pill. So 'cost' would be $53 per pill.

But what they do is sell that pill for $400 in the US. And let's say they sell 1 million pills to the US market, so $400mil income. They then sell 19 million pills in other countries at $40 each. That's $760 million from other countries. The company makes $1.16 billion, so they net a $160 million profit. But the US is paying 1/3rd the costs while only getting 1/20th of the benefit. For everyone that wants to look at 'fair', that doesn't look fair to me.
 
Where does that one billion come from?

I know it's a random number, but let's say a billion.

When did they build the labs? Buy the property? Buy the raw materials (opium from Afghanistan?) And everything else.

Do they never amortize the costs of these things? Or that is their running, operating overhead?

I see what your saying on how the cost of said pills are divided by country, and how we pay 2/3rds, that makes sense.

I dunno. I bought a bottle of cold pills in Thailand for like 19 cents. That would have been 14 bucks here. And yes, the dollar buys a lot of Baht, but then shouldn't it have cost 500 Baht?

I'm saying I think medicines cost less, in dollars, overseas.

Your points are excellent, and I'm the last person to ask anyone, individual or company, to do something at a loss.

But I think the profit "limit" shouldn't be a calculation of the maximum amount the largest number of people can pay, factoring in insurance and government assistance.

We'll never get out of this debt loop and insurance trap, we'll slowly slide backwards in lifespan and end of life quality. Cause people will have to choose between pills, or rent.

I think our generation should take it on the chin, and just refuse medication.
We will die (we will anyway) and the insurance companies and drug companies will go belly up, and our children will get a different, hopefully better, system.
 
Urbanprep said:
Any reports that come from the United Nations has to be suspect, people can no longer trust the U.N. They have become a self serving and openly manipulative organization. I just finished reading an article where Cuban doctors were refusing to return to Cuba. One Doctor said he would rather stay and sort garbage in Brazil, than return back to Cuba. So how does that equate to Cuba having a great medical system.
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From what I understand, Cuba actually has great medical schools, research, and technologies. However, the Cuban people don't necessarily end up benefiting because the doctors go to other Latin American countries to practice. And life in Cuba leaves a lot to be desired in other areas as well, as far as I know.
 
The Cuban doctors are sent to other latin American countries because Cuba gets paid about half of the doctors income. Cube is not some socialist milk of kindness country. When Brazil refused to continue to pay Cuba, they ordered their doctors home. Cuba is like the Clinton foundation, pay to play.
 
Urbanprep said:
The Cuban doctors are sent to other latin American countries because Cuba gets paid about half of the doctors income. Cube is not some socialist milk of kindness country. When Brazil refused to continue to pay Cuba, they ordered their doctors home. Cuba is like the Clinton foundation, pay to play.
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Exactly. The doctors don't really get paid much of anything for it. But still a lot of them end up wanting to stay in their new countries after their designated time.
 
Sounds like a form of slavery to me. At least indentured servants. Wow, what a great country Cuba is! (sarcasm dripping)
 
robinjopo said:
This is not really on topic, but its about health.

Did any of you see where they tested the touch screens at numerous McDonald's and they all tested positive for human feces? That's just gross.
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Yes that is very gross. I refuse to use these touch screen cashiers or the self check out systems. I am not their employee, I am their customer and they can darn sure wait on me.
 
@robinjopo
McDonald's has a new kiosk system where customers can use a touch screen system to place their own orders. So that maybe the culprit or it could be their own registers, either way, very gross.
 
you're worried about the touch screen? You should see what they put in/on the food. Or what they call 'beef'. I knew a fellow years back who bought cattle for McD's or Burger King or one of those. Any cow that couldn't walk right, was sick, or anything that others wouldn't bid on it, be bought it. He never ate fast food.

That should tell you plenty.
 
Or yet another question, has a single person here benefitted in any way from Obamacare? Anyone? How?
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The only people that did, are those who were basically making poverty level wages, and couldn't previously afford insurance. They are the only ones who were in a BETTER position after ObamaCare.

The majority of us, instead, saw our monthly premiums go WAY up to pay for this, resulting in many of us just no longer being insured. I mean, it would cost us about $500 a month for me to be insured (I'm a contractor, so would have to be on my wife's insurance). No thanks, I could just save that and pay for the little bit I do out of pocket. But it shouldn't come to that. This is nuts.

To Brent's point (pages back), the ORIGINAL bi-partisan effort wasn't bad, but the insurance lobby got their mitts on it, and destroyed it. It still wasn't perfect, but it was better than the final version that made it into law. From what I've seen about the plan for TrumpCare, it's more similar to the original bi-partisan effort, but actions speak louder than words, so we'll see.
 
Yes that is very gross. I refuse to use these touch screen cashiers or the self check out systems. I am not their employee, I am their customer and they can darn sure wait on me.
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Even going as fast as possible, it would take MINUTES to place my order with a kiosk, as each screen comes up, and the next, etc.. On the contrary, I can just verbally state my order in less than 5 SECONDS (number 3, medium size, diet coke). Now why on Earth would I want to use your damn kiosk?
 
Jason's Deli has a kiosk, but it's not for the full menu. For example, you can get a full salad bar, but not a single trip salad bar on the kiosk. It is faster than going through the line.
 
Gazrok said:
The only people that did, are those who were basically making poverty level wages, and couldn't previously afford insurance. They are the only ones who were in a BETTER position after ObamaCare.
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I don't think even that's true. That group, if they were sick before, they just went to the doctor/hospital without insurance. They got the treatment they needed and just never paid the bill. Now granted, they didn't get all the services they would otherwise. But every plan has it's limits, it's just a question of where the line is drawn.

The real people who are hurt are those who before had insurance, and some assets, and now have lost their insurance due to high costs. They fear going to the hospital as they can take everything they own and leave them homeless. There are far more in this situation today than were in the first case.
 
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