LAS VEGAS Mass shooting at Country & Western Concert

[Kevin L]

I never saw a need (even teotwawki) for a bumpfire stock and/or full-auto.

Sure, slinging lead downrange at 600+ rounds per minute seems devastating, but I question if it contributes to survival.

Full-auto fire reduces the functional life of the weapon because of the wear and tear, the ammo runs out quicker, and there is more risk to innocent bystanders in full-auto mode.

Also, most navy SEALs and other special forces people prefer semi auto, since they often work without easy resupply, and they work in close quarters with each other and don't want friendly fire casualties...which is more likely with full-auto.

I have guns for post SHTF for self-defense, security, and subsistance hunting.

This is different than guerrilla warfare...which doesn't interest me.

Those bumpfire toys seem like they would appeal to people who have seen Rambo and Red Dawn too many times.

Asymetric warfare is nasty, dirty, disgusting, and awful. I believe that 90% of the people who bought things like this would fall apart after six hours of real guerrilla warfare.

These toys give legitimate gun owners a bad name.

Thank you for considering my lengthy post.

 

[jeager]

Bump fire seems to be fit only for spray and pray as in Las Vegas.
Firing into a crowd of 22,000 means he could hit many someones.
Samo with full auto.
I prefer aimed semi auto fire.
Spray and pray would better suit close range with a shotgun.

 

[user 6493]

full auto,bump fire all are a waste of ammo and pretty much a toy to the average Joe,I have a AR and a pump shotgun,I need a 1911 45 ACP and would like a bolt action rifle,I might even bite the bullet and get them,,,,,in a SHTF situation wasting ammo is not an option because getting more may not be possible ,,,for me shooting and exposing myself to an enemy is a last resort,,,,,,,

 

[drt4lfe]

Full auto fire has it's place.....that is why the Military uses tripods and vehicle mounts so you can fire accurately......M249/M240 are full auto only for a reason, 50 BMG can be fired semi auto, but that is very rare that anyone does when the chit is going on, when you have been trained on how to use full auto it can make a big difference....SpecOp missions dictate weapon need and usage....they also use Suppressed Sub-machineguns which are very controllable full auto...laying down a large volume of fire is very important and very deadly in a lot of situations....the guy in Vegas just proved it, but yet there are those who say it is not necessary or needed ?

 

[user 6493]

Full auto fire has it's place.....that is why the Military uses tripods and vehicle mounts so you can fire accurately......M249/M240 are full auto only for a reason, 50 BMG can be fired semi auto, but that is very rare that anyone does when the chit is going on, when you have been trained on how to use full auto it can make a big difference....SpecOp missions dictate weapon need and usage....they also use Suppressed Sub-machineguns which are very controllable full auto...laying down a large volume of fire is very important and very deadly in a lot of situations....the guy in Vegas just proved it, but yet there are those who say it is not necessary or needed ?

I never said not needed just that for the average Joe it is a novelty and a toy ,,,,,the military is a completely different game

 

[DrHenley]

Well, I think two big mysteries has been cleared up at least.

Why were two windows blown out in the Mandalay Bay, and why wasn't anyone screaming after the first burst of automatic gunfire?

https://www.reviewjournal.com/local...ter-targeted-aviation-fuel-tanks-source-says/

Because the window facing east was used to shoot at two jet fuel tanks, and the window facing northeast was used to shoot at the festival. He probably started off shooting at the jet fuel tanks, so nobody got hit initially.

 

[drt4lfe]

Like I said, The guy in Vegas proved they are not Toy's or Novelties.......And how many Ex-Military who are no longer in the Military are also Training 1,000's of Civilians every year on weapons and tactics ? All of those people paying for training are being better trained than the average private, the average private does not get trained by Navy SEAL's, Green Berets and Delta Force....the Military is not a completely different game now....20 years ago you could not go to a Training School every weekend and get the type of training you can now....the playing field is becoming more level all the time.....every mass shooting is better planned and becoming more deadly....The guy in Vegas may not have had any Professional Training, I don't know....but the access to the knowledge is very easy to find and study.....the Tools that he used showed more thought and preparedness......

 

[jeager]

full auto,bump fire all are a waste of ammo

I agree with that 100%. The nut job doing the shooting didn't care much
about accuracy when spraying bullets into a crowd of 22,000.
When I was in charge of SWAT I bought 3 Ruger heavy barrel rifles
in .308, equipped with Leupold 4 X 12 scope sights.
We could easily get 1 inch groups at 100 yards but sighted in at 50
yards.
I policed a city so a shot with such a rifle would seldom ever exceed
50 yards.

 

[Gazrok]

Of course they were used in a crime ergo the police had them.
Serial numbers not entered into NCIC or cleared from NCIC.
The department had an Federal Firearms License thus legal.

Because of course, governmental paperwork is infallible... LOL...
No thanks. Way too risky in my book.

 

[Gazrok]

I still can't accept the "nut job" theory. It took him YEARS to amass these weapons. He also seemed to be doing it in secret, and though he obviously had plenty of practice with the weapons, nobody who knows him would have pegged him as a gun nut. It's really, really weird. I still say an MKUltra bit is the only explanation that fits, as out there as it is. This reeks of false flag...and so did Orlando.

For that matter, so did the guy they CAUGHT in CA the same day the Orlando shooting took place, and the same for the guy they CAUGHT in TN the day after the Vegas shooting. Both loaded with weapons and ammo, likely ready to do the same. Do people go crazy in pairs, at the same time, in different states? I doubt it.

 

[drt4lfe]

full auto,bump fire all are a waste of ammo

I agree with that 100%. The nut job doing the shooting didn't care much
about accuracy when spraying bullets into a crowd of 22,000.
When I was in charge of SWAT I bought 3 Ruger heavy barrel rifles
in .308, equipped with Leupold 4 X 12 scope sights.
We could easily get 1 inch groups at 100 yards but sighted in at 50
yards.
I policed a city so a shot with such a rifle would seldom ever exceed
50 yards.

The shooter was not trying to hit a specific target, no need for an accurate bolt gun, that's the whole point....it would have been useless for his purpose....How is it a waste of ammo ? The damage he did proved how effective a high rate of fire and the Bumpfire stocks are....59 dead and 500+ injured....he effectively used a lot of ammo.....

 

[jeager]

@ Gazrok

Insane people aren't stupid.
I was a police officer for over 2 decades and we were very well trained
in recognizing the mentally ill as we often dealt with mentally ill people.
Some of the brightest people were 5 fries shy of a Happy Meal.
It takes a warped person to do what this shooter did but that does
not equal stupid.

@ drt4lfe
Yes the nut job shooter just wanted to inflict as much damage as possible.
Specific targets were irrelevant.
Imagine the carnage if he'd ignited the tanks of fuel.

 

[Maverick]

I never saw a need (even teotwawki) for a bumpfire stock and/or full-auto.

Sure, slinging lead downrange at 600+ rounds per minute seems devastating, but I question if it contributes to survival.

Full-auto fire reduces the functional life of the weapon because of the wear and tear, the ammo runs out quicker, and there is more risk to innocent bystanders in full-auto mode.

Also, most navy SEALs and other special forces people prefer semi auto, since they often work without easy resupply, and they work in close quarters with each other and don't want friendly fire casualties...which is more likely with full-auto.

I have guns for post SHTF for self-defense, security, and subsistance hunting.

This is different than guerrilla warfare...which doesn't interest me.

Those bumpfire toys seem like they would appeal to people who have seen Rambo and Red Dawn too many times.

Asymetric warfare is nasty, dirty, disgusting, and awful. I believe that 90% of the people who bought things like this would fall apart after six hours of real guerrilla warfare.

These toys give legitimate gun owners a bad name.

Thank you for considering my lengthy post.

I only used full auto a couple of times in 12 years of my service strictly suppressive firing. My son n law who spent 3 tours in Iraq and Afghanistan never put his M4 in FA even in room clearing situations, in the civilian world it’s totally unnecessary. Hollywood glamorized the use of FA and it’s effectiveness :-/

 

[drt4lfe]

I only used full auto a couple of times in 12 years of my service strictly suppressive firing. My son n law who spent 3 tours in Iraq and Afghanistan never put his M4 in FA even in room clearing situations, in the civilian world it’s totally unnecessary. Hollywood glamorized the use of FA and it’s effectiveness :-/

It does not matter if you think automatic fire has no use in the civilian world, The shooter in Vegas proved that with a few weapon accessories that allowed him to fire close to automatic cycle rate that you can totally create massive carnage.......I know of no one who would use full automatic clearing rooms, you do not get taught or trained to use full auto clearing rooms, that has nothing to do with Vegas shooter....the Vegas shooter created mayhem doing what people keep saying is not needed or necessary......he did it anyway....If that is not enough proof that full auto is very useful and damaging then I don't know what is....

 

[TexasFreedom]

Listening to Rush a bit ago, I thought crossed my mind. Follow this story for a minute.

Picture 2 soldiers in a foxhole, Charlie & Larry. There are enemies firing at them, and they start talking about a strategy to beat the enemy. Without warning, Larry jumps out of the foxhole & starts running at the enemy & is hit & jumps into another foxhole. He yells back demanding that Charlie pull a unit of Charlie's own blood & throw it up there so Larry can replace what has bled out. Charlie yells to Larry to stop running up there, it's not working, but he uses his medical kit, drains a unit out of his own veins, and throws it up to Larry. Larry doesn't do much to treat the wound but takes the unit of blood. He then jumps out & runs a few more yards before getting shot again & falls into another foxhole. He again yells back for more blood, Charlie argues, but gives him more blood. And the cycle keeps repeating.

OK, what's that story about? Well Larry is the Liberals and Charlie is conservatives. Look at history to see how this has played out. The country was under moral failure, and in the 60's the liberals kicked the Bible out of the classroom. Then Prayer. After all, you can't force kids to have morals. First unit of blood drawn. Then drugs went crazy, and liberals said we surely can't spank kids in schools any more. And the gays wanted in the military. And perverts wanted to marry. And illegals wanted everything given to them. And we can't be mean by not offering cable TV to prisoners. And and and and.

And now we have a guy kill 50+ people and injure hundreds more? You know he was a liberal. But of course we have to understand how he was feeling, why he did this, figure out what conservative positions caused this to happen... Above I listed all the reasons this happened.

I tell you, the 'bravery' of the liberals is draining every drop of blood I have!

 

[Maverick]

It does not matter if you think automatic fire has no use in the civilian world, The shooter in Vegas proved that with a few weapon accessories that allowed him to fire close to automatic cycle rate that you can totally create massive carnage.......I know of no one who would use full automatic clearing rooms, you do not get taught or trained to use full auto clearing rooms, that has nothing to do with Vegas shooter....the Vegas shooter created mayhem doing what people keep saying is not needed or necessary......he did it anyway....If that is not enough proof that full auto is very useful and damaging then I don't know what is....

One isn’t necessarily trained for FA efficiency even in the Military, being trained for FA efficiency is weapon specific, being trained for any situation doesn’t dictate reality, because one isn’t trained using FA in room clearing doesn’t mean it’s never been used, it has. Anyone hell bent on mass killings will purchase make or modify any weapon for the desired effect doesn’t mean we should all convert our weapons because of the carnage affect. As I said, I don’t see a purpose for it. I don’t see us civilians going to war that requires the option unless one is into the wow factor. I’m not against owning a weapon capable of FA I just don’t see a purpose was my point, I’m not into the wow factor or carnage affect.

 

[drt4lfe]

For this incident the shooter planned and prepared the best weapons for the job, high rate of fire with a large number of targets.....was he coached ? Did he plan this based on other shootings ? Perhaps the Texas Tower shooter ? get up high with lots of guns and ammo ? his intent was the wow factor and carnage.....the wow factor and carnage along with a large dose of fear is what defeating your enemy is all about, why he felt those people were an enemy ? we may never know, Enemy may be the wrong word, but if you plan to do what he did against so many in his eyes they may have been the enemy ? I know that all Law abiding gun owners will suffer again due to this shooting.....another ammo run and shortage ? sky high prices on everything ? backorders due to sales volumes ? AR15's jump from $400 to $800 ? Hopefully the fact that Trump, in my mind won't be stupid like Obama did may help ?

 

[drt4lfe]

 

[drt4lfe]

Slidefire's own belt fed......may be hard to purchase now......lol

 

[jeager]

In my not very humble opinion full auto fire from a shoulder fired
rifle is a waste of ammo and heats the barrel to dangerous temps.
We had a couple M4 SWAT rifles capable of full auto but never even
once practiced in full auto.
For military operations full auto is darned handy especially for
suppressive fire.
We even had three WWII mil surp Reising sub guns we used in
semi auto mode.
It did make a very handy .45 a.c.p. carbine in semi auto mode.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M50_Reising

 

[Maverick]

For this incident the shooter planned and prepared the best weapons for the job, high rate of fire with a large number of targets.....was he coached ? Did he plan this based on other shootings ? Perhaps the Texas Tower shooter ? get up high with lots of guns and ammo ? his intent was the wow factor and carnage.....the wow factor and carnage along with a large dose of fear is what defeating your enemy is all about, why he felt those people were an enemy ? we may never know, Enemy may be the wrong word, but if you plan to do what he did against so many in his eyes they may have been the enemy ? I know that all Law abiding gun owners will suffer again due to this shooting.....another ammo run and shortage ? sky high prices on everything ? backorders due to sales volumes ? AR15's jump from $400 to $800 ? Hopefully the fact that Trump, in my mind won't be stupid like Obama did may help ?

Preliminary reports from law enforcement, he has no military training, he was planning this for years, wasn’t known to frequent shooting range, no internet activity nor online profile, he paid cash for everything including House. The whole situation is odd, if it wasn’t for his gambling he would have been totally off grid in way of activities? (according to released reports)

Hopefully something breaks open?

 

[drt4lfe]

Training under the radar is easy to get especially if you have the cash.....plenty of places to shoot other than a public range.....Not that he did either....Cash always tightens lips...lol.....and if he did get some training ? who is goona admit it now ? Criminally insane people function everyday and sometimes never noticed until that day happens and they go off...he was obviously very smart or one of the luckiest guy's in the world up to the shooting....it is odd to me too that AFTER all of these shootings people come out of the wood work telling what they knew and saw, but never said a word to LE until afterwards....it is especially disturbing that shooters from some of the past shooting had been interviewed by DHS or had been watched for long periods of time...and then kill a bunch of people....that is baffling....even with Obama as president it baffles me that anyone in DHS/FBI/ATF would still let such people roam the streets...

 

[jeager]

Insane does not = stupid.
It can = stupid of course but many criminally insane were down
right brilliant.
The uni-bomber and Ted Bundy come to mind.

https://www.wonderslist.com/top-10-most-intelligent-serial-killers/

Average I.Q. is around 90 to 100 depending upon what source you read.
I've been I.Q. tested as an adult twice, 120 then 132 yet I graduated
high school (barely) with a D-. ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww
I was bored!
At 48 I went to college, in 3 years graduated with an "A" average and
2 degrees while carrying a full time college course load, working
full time + over time, and married raising 3 step daughters.
I still have the degrees but not the wife.
I am certified, diagnosed, NUTS!
I'm bi-polar, have clinical depression, and p.t.s.d. delayed syndrome.
I said I own 50 firearms and thousands of rounds of ammo.
I'd NEVER HARM ANYONE.
You see in spite of mild "disorders" I love life, respect the lives of other,
enjoy my life, enjoy loved ones and strangers alike.
Most of all I love the God of my understanding.
The God I believe in, trust, and love, also loves us.
God would be really upset with me if I harmed another.
Something else.
I'm a disabled officer. 13 very serious injuries over 22.5 years, 9 months
in rehab learning to walk again.
I have ZERO resentments against those that hurt me.
I won't waste my life letting bad people live rent free in my mind.

 

[jeager]

People may think "why all the guns and ammo"?
There is an easy answer.
I WANT them. Period.
I grew up soooooo poor I had no toys like other kids.
My basket ball was a pigs bladder. ( yes you can make one from a pig,
The "hoop" a 5 gallon bucket with the bottom rusted out.
I EARNED my way and slowly bought what I could afford and over
decades have the goodies I have now.
It isn't about need, it's about want.
I drive an expensive SUV, we have two homes in Ohio, and one in
Florida.
My fiance has only high school but was #1 in sales world wide in her field.
She's been in every major country on this planet paid for by her
company. There was even a promotional movie made about her.
All that and she's BLIND!
People make their own lives.
Why the nut job in Vegas decided to commit mass murder may never be known.
I don't know if he was insane or not but certainly his thought process wasn't
the same as mine and yours.
IF there is a Hell he's there.
IF his g-friend knew what he was going to do and remained mute then
she'll be right in Hell with him. Where they should be.
There is my biased indictment of that situation.

 

[Psalm7]

Saw a study where one part was on mass shooter politics. Nearly all have been registered Democrats . The leading crime areas are ran by Democrats. Most firearm crimes are committed by indaviduals that live liberal lifestyles.
Just something to think about .

 

[user 6493]

Like I said, The guy in Vegas proved they are not Toy's or Novelties.......And how many Ex-Military who are no longer in the Military are also Training 1,000's of Civilians every year on weapons and tactics ? All of those people paying for training are being better trained than the average private, the average private does not get trained by Navy SEAL's, Green Berets and Delta Force....the Military is not a completely different game now....20 years ago you could not go to a Training School every weekend and get the type of training you can now....the playing field is becoming more level all the time.....every mass shooting is better planned and becoming more deadly....The guy in Vegas may not have had any Professional Training, I don't know....but the access to the knowledge is very easy to find and study.....the Tools that he used showed more thought and preparedness......

please explain to me why Joe Average needs bump fire stocks or full auto,,,,,, ,,and I did not say they were not effective but the average Joe does not need either

 

[toexist]

Most mass shooters are affluent white males but who gives a crap? Should you hate him anymore or any less if you have more in common with him? At the end of the day you cannot make sense or in anyway justify these types of events. There is no logical explanation and there never will be.

I also find it amusing how no one is referring to this piece of shyt as a terrorist because that's what he is. A person doesn't have to have a religious affiliation to be a terrorist.

59 Americans are dead. I couldn't give two flying ####s about his political or religious preferences.

 

[user 6493]

The shooter was not trying to hit a specific target, no need for an accurate bolt gun, that's the whole point....it would have been useless for his purpose....How is it a waste of ammo ? The damage he did proved how effective a high rate of fire and the Bumpfire stocks are....59 dead and 500+ injured....he effectively used a lot of ammo.....

I know you aren't,,,,but it almost sounds like you are defending this guy but in reality you are defending the effectiveness of full auto and bump stocks


the point I am trying to make and you seem to be missing it is,,,,full auto or bump stocks are designed for mass killing,nothing more nothing less,,,the general public does not need this type of fire power,,,,,,,

I am as pro gun as one can get but I can see the need to do something to prevent this from happening again,,,even the NRA is in agreement on this

 

[user 6493]

NRA

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/nr...d-fire-gun-accessories-after-vegas/ar-AAsX76M

 

[toexist]

I know you aren't,,,,but it almost sounds like you are defending this guy but in reality you are defending the effectiveness of full auto and bump stocks


the point I am trying to make and you seem to be missing it is,,,,full auto or bump stocks are designed for mass killing,nothing more nothing less,,,the general public does not need this type of fire power,,,,,,,

I am as pro gun as one can get but I can see the need to do something to prevent this from happening again,,,even the NRA is in agreement on this

I agree ghost but I think he illegally converted weapons to full auto anyway. Besides even with semi auto from his position...he was going to inflict devastating damage.

People are desperate to place blame on something but sometimes there just is no making sense of things.

I don't see any new laws or regulations preventing this unfortunately. This guy was clearly disturbed, determined and had no regard for his own life...let alone anyone else's.

Sad.