Nuclear War & Survival Help

[imaginejohn]

Yeah I heard ordinary soil around you gives good radiation protection, this guy is digging his container shelter into a hillside..-

View attachment 18132

Depends how close to Ground Zero. Within 75 miles or so, and all of the surface soil gets obliterated too.

Dig deep, and don't forget the thick layer of reinforced concrete.

 

[BruceS]

Do you guys think there is a market for above ground fallout shelters here in the US, using poured cement as barrier? Our adds are targeting Europe, maybe poor word choice, but wasn't sure about spending the advertising dollars here with Google adds being so much more costly. Would love any feedback on this.
Thanks
B

 

[poltiregist]

I could be wrong but would think , below ground fallout shelters would outsell above ground by a huge margin in the U.S. . A problem being though the U.S. economy is collapsing Venezuela style , with runaway inflation . Many people are not getting their income to match the new inflated prices . That means less money for a fallout shelter .

 

[Propwash]

Uh , there's 3 people and only 2 single beds. Hmmmm....

Look on the bright side mate, maybe two of them are not men but women with short hair and you can let them take turns to share your bunk..

 

[Propwash]

Do you guys think there is a market for above ground fallout shelters here in the US, using poured cement as barrier?..

Anything above ground would be prone to get zapped by the blast depending how far away it is, but this baby looks pretty solid, but if it was mine I'd buy a load more bricks to form angled steps around the walls and door like the egyptian pyramids to deflect the blast up and over..

 

[Oddcaliber]

Look up Atlas shelters. Very good but very expensive.

 

[rainingcatzanddogs]

Do you guys think there is a market for above ground fallout shelters here in the US, using poured cement as barrier? Our adds are targeting Europe, maybe poor word choice, but wasn't sure about spending the advertising dollars here with Google adds being so much more costly. Would love any feedback on this.
Thanks
B

Just my two cents. I see you are in Texas. In the hill country (and west), where you routinely cannot dig more than 8" deep before hitting a slab of the hardest limestone you have ever encountered and then after getting through that, hitting another 1" down and another; yes, it probably would be a great option for a lot of people, though there, any tornados you might get are usually f1/2 (thinking additional use marketing). If you have enough property though, you can simply put one on the hillside and cover it with dirt to blend in.

In southern and far east Texas (east of I-35, far east, on the other side of a line from Tyler down to College Station) where digging is sand/clay and fairly easy and tornados are the variety that can wipe your existence off the map, I would say that underground would be the preference.

1) far more hidden so less advertising to the neighborhood
2) a lot more DIY-ers
3) fewer people can afford an expensive shelter

 

[imaginejohn]

Look on the bright side mate, maybe two of them are not men but women with short hair and you can let them take turns to share your bunk..

View attachment 18142

There are two bunks. Also two chairs. In this scenario the system would be 1-2 people awake at any time, and 1-2 asleep at any one time.

So, why all 3 awake?

I expect that's because an unanticipated ground zero has just appeared about 15 miles from their bunker. The bunker has been constructed with a mere 1ft of concrete and situated less than 5 feet under ground level.

They are all awake to try and put their heads together about this imminent problem.

In about 5 seconds they and the bunker will be pulverised to fine ashes.

 

[rainingcatzanddogs]

There are two bunks. Also two chairs. In this scenario the system would be 1-2 people awake at any time, and 1-2 asleep at any one time.

So, why all 3 awake?

I expect that's because an unanticipated ground zero has just appeared about 15 miles from their bunker. The bunker has been constructed with a mere 1ft of concrete and situated less than 5 feet under ground level.

They are all awake to try and put their heads together about this imminent problem.

In about 5 seconds they and the bunker will be pulverised to fine ashes.

It looks like they have more than 4' of earth above if that is 1' thick concrete. They are probably good. Maybe they are located in the minimal zone and are using the ham to talk to family? LOL.

What is more concerning is they seem to have only one egress.

 

[imaginejohn]

Maybe they are located in the minimal zone and are using the ham to talk to family? LOL.

I think they had planned to be in some kind of minimal zone. But look at how close that mushroom cloud is. O dear, O dear.

Also, what little chance of survival they had has been destroyed by forgetting to close the door to the entrance to the drift tunnel. As the blinding white fireball flows over them it will suck their toes through their tonsils...

 

[rainingcatzanddogs]

I think they had planned to be in some kind of minimal zone. But look at how close that mushroom cloud is. O dear, O dear.

Also, what little chance of survival they had has been destroyed by forgetting to close the door to the entrance to the drift tunnel. As the blinding white fireball flows over them it will suck their toes through their tonsils...

The question is...is that rebar reinforced and filled concrete block or just cinder block?

 

[imaginejohn]

The question is...is that rebar reinforced and filled concrete block or just cinder block?

I think they cut back on the concrete budget... in order to install that swanky situation awareness screen!

A classic prepper error!

 

[rainingcatzanddogs]

I think they cut back on the concrete budget... in order to install that swanky situation awareness screen!

A classic prepper error!

I poured 7,500 lbs of concrete mixed by hand just to get a foundation for my BOL cabin. Something like a Nuke shelter, no problem, especially since I have an automatic mixer now. LOL.

 

[Propwash]

I think I like this bunker, that could almost be me climbing in the top..

 

[Dave2001]

Anything above ground would be prone to get zapped by the blast depending how far away it is, but this baby looks pretty solid, but if it was mine I'd buy a load more bricks to form angled steps around the walls and door like the egyptian pyramids to deflect the blast up and over..

View attachment 18144

This looks more like a storm shelter than a fallout shelter, too many unprotected avenues for radiation or blast wave to affect!

 

[rainingcatzanddogs]

I see a couple of things missing. Again, no 90 degree turns. No second egress/exit. No mud room/shower/de-radiation area near the entrance. No kitchen or utility area to house power needed for ventilation. No storage area for water or food.

Call me a princess but, if I am going to do something, I do it right.

This one is a good start.

 

[rainingcatzanddogs]

I still don't like that one either.

There are a couple of mistakes I see on most commercial shelter plans.

The first is only one entry/egress. If debris falls across your only means of escape, you are now trapped. No one is coming to help you. It just became your tomb.

The second is doors that only open outward making it impossible to clear the debris. Even if you put your shelter in a clearing, there is the possibility of having trees/debris blown onto your shelter.

Third, there is no area to clean off. Chances are that you will have to make trips topside at some point, even if only to get a radiation reading. You will need an area to sanitize yourself and store the topside equipment.

Fourth, they do not zig zag on the entrance or exit. There is most often a straight shot from the entrance right into the main living quarters. This is a no-go for me.

Fifth, not enough ventilation. I adhere to the two is one and one is none principle of prepping. It is why I have two BOL's.

One inlet/ outlet, you may as not have any. If you can’t breathe because your shelter is filled with CO2 due to some extra people or a shaft being damaged…you are screwed.

Sixth, no independent source of water or drainage for the water that is likely to accumulate due to breathing and sweating.

 

[DrHenley]

I think I like this bunker, that could almost be me climbing in the top..

That's called a "death trap."

 

[imaginejohn]

I would add, only from casual reading on the subject, that the bunker needs to be at least 150feet below ground. The problem there being that no one can know for sure how far they actually are from a potential targeted site, or a non-targeted site that gets hit due to error. So it's sensible to progress on worst-case scenarios because there is one chance only to get it right.

Also, a separate dome constructed above the entire top adds considerably.

The logistics of going underground are mind-boggling. An all-out nuclear war would render up-top dangerous for many years in a targeted nation, such as the USA or any NATO member. It's just not do-able for the average person. What gets sold are imperfect and unsustainable shelters that are basically tombs that you get to hang out in and prepare for your death.

 

[Dave2001]

That's called a "death trap."

IF shelters are not built right they can become TOMBS!!!

 

[rainingcatzanddogs]

I would add, only from casual reading on the subject, that the bunker needs to be at least 150feet below ground. The problem there being that no one can know for sure how far they actually are from a potential targeted site, or a non-targeted site that gets hit due to error. So it's sensible to progress on worst-case scenarios because there is one chance only to get it right.

Also, a separate dome constructed above the entire top adds considerably.

The logistics of going underground are mind-boggling. An all-out nuclear war would render up-top dangerous for many years in a targeted nation, such as the USA or any NATO member. It's just not do-able for the average person. What gets sold are imperfect and unsustainable shelters that are basically tombs that you get to hang out in and prepare for your death.

Since I am not Elon Musk, and the water table is at 30' in most spots, 150' is a bit out of the question. There are no 100% guarantees when it comes to surviving a nuclear holocaust. If they are going to make a try at it, everyone has to do the best they can.

 

[bill harrell]

Guys, I hate to burst your bubble, but you can buy a plane ticket to South America a whole lot cheaper and quicker. Put 6000 miles between you and the most likely target.10000 miles of air fresh of the Pacific. Only three major cities in the southern hemisphere . And most air currents traversing east or west, almost nothing north and south. The golden rule of real estate....location , location, location.

 

[EastenerWesterner]

I had a friend who made his first career the military, mainly Corp of Engineers
Always told me the interstate system was built a a decoy.
They were still going to depend on the parallel route to the most interstates. RT 11 to the 81. RT 20 to 90 come to mind.

 

[GeorgiaPeachie]

I have already done a test run when my area saw an invasion of panicked out of state people descend into my area , when covid 19 first came into the United States . I slept outside " armed " guarding my milk goats and giving me the advantage of being where the enemy would not expect me to be , such as in a comfortable bed . On one high danger night Me , my grandson and a on duty deputy sheriff were spread out waiting in the darkness for a marauder . We learned from that experience and have since fortified our defenses even stronger .

Nothing can compare to having a trial run! You are no doubt more secure because of the experience.

 

[Propwash]

I think I like this bunker, that could almost be me climbing in the top..

View attachment 18145

That's called a "death trap."

But it'd be a great way to go, trapped with two blondes..

 

[Propwash]

..Keeping our humanity and our values will be a challenge unless we think through things ahead of time. Once we lose those things, we become no better than those "bad guys"..

On the other hand there'll be no rules in a knife fight so I'd rather become a mean b*stard like Ray Milland..-



"In peace, there's nothing so becomes a man as modest stillness and humility, but when the blast of war blows in our ears then imitate the action of the tiger.." - (Shakesp's Henry V)

 

[Propwash]

Scenario: You go to the nearest town to trade and you encounter a surgeon and his family who are refugees...What do you do?...
Scenario: There is an elderly couple.. running short on food....

Yup, if we and our small survival group are on the verge of starving ourselves, adding new mouths to feed would be a no-no regardless of who or what they are, so there'd be tough decisions to make, like this one-

"Can I come with you please? I'm ever so hungry, mummy and daddy are asleep and won't wake up"

 

[DrHenley]

On the other hand there'll be no rules in a knife fight so I'd rather become a mean b*stard like Ray Milland..-

There is one rule: "Don't bring a knife to a gunfight!"

(Unless you are Jim Bowie, LOL)

 

[rainingcatzanddogs]

On the other hand there'll be no rules in a knife fight so I'd rather become a mean b*stard like Ray Milland..-



"In peace, there's nothing so becomes a man as modest stillness and humility, but when the blast of war blows in our ears then imitate the action of the tiger.." - (Shakesp's Henry V)

Keeping our humanity doesn't mean you are a doormat. Humans will stand bravely to protect their own when necessary. In that movie, he was doing what needed to be done to keep his family safe. It was a "reality check" so that his family understood the seriousness of the situation. His wife suffered throughout from "normalcy bias". Her mind just couldn't make the switch from suburban Karen to Xena warrior princess. His reaction was a 2x4 to the head to make her wake up....being polite is not what I was referring to.

What I am talking about is the lesser side of humanity. Things done that will haunt your memories because they were done, not out of true necessity but, of anger, hate or competitive edge; crossing lines in the name of survival that should never be crossed because they will scar your soul because you know they were wrong.

One of my contributions to my group is as a therapist. That was my educational background. I have heard stories from people that would curl your toes.

 

[Propwash]

What I am talking about is the lesser side of humanity. Things done that will haunt your memories because they were done, not out of true necessity but, of anger, hate or competitive edge..

Yup, if the bad guys are coming at us, a man's gotta do what he's gotta do to defend himself, his family and his group with a clear conscience..