Russia Versus The Ukraine

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bigpaul: to date, there have been over 2600 nuclear bomb tests made by America, Russia, China, France and others...
The world even saw the CZAR bomb which echoed and reverberated around the world 5 times with its shockwaves. A nuclear war carried out at the moment would not destroy and poison the entire world. Yes, there will be contaminations, poisonings, radiations and all the other things following the explosions. I do hope and think that the powers that be will see the destruction happening and not use the total of "40 overkill" the world has at its disposal and decide that "it is enough now". Many will survive and start over. Some will be in the stone age (as are many in Afghanistan, Iran, Mongolia and Australia already) and some will still have modern technology as a simple diesel motor, batteries and solar systems. We will survive. Some of us...live free, Gary
 
an invasion of another country is an act of war, pure and simple.
Do you hold the US behavior in invading and drastically interferring in foreign affairs, elections, and economies in the same regard?

Would other nations, say Iran, be justified in supplying the Al Queda in Iraq with weapons to kill Americans during OIF (which, they did by the way.) How about if Russia directly supplied advanced weaponry and training to Afghanistan during 20 years of OEF?

In the grand scheme, given the wests actual violations of promises in the region, Russia is far more justified to re-take Ukraine (a border nation that has been part of Russia more than it has not been in centuries), than the US was justified in Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, or Afghanistan, or dozens of other places...

Do you remember the Cuba missile crisis when Russia was parking nukes on our "border." Well, the US and west have been doing more aggression than that on Russia's border since the 1990s. Including bioweapons labs in Ukraine, and luring Ukraine to want NATO membership. At what point does Russia have the right to demand this cease?

Further, by analogy, if Texas left the US and created a similar disputed territory, and the US tried unsuccessfully to reclaim Texas, and Texas was trying to join Russia, and Russia was supplying weapons to Texas, what would the US position be?

To Russia's credit it has tried at length to negotiate and for peace. Ukraine - backed by the west/US weapons - has resisted. If the west had not interfered or given support, Ukraine would have had to fold and nobody die. That to me seems like the best resolution considering I'm 95% sure Ukraine will ultimately lose anyway, after heavy losses.

It's a war of attrition and Russia will win. The only way Ukraine prevail is is NATO and the US supply endless reinforcements and ground troops and military weapons. And, that WILL lead to a nuclear war due to the direct military threat by the west and direct war on Russia's border.

So it's an interesting (and hypocritical) position to take to claim Russia is the bad guy here. And it's a unbelievably stupid and dangerous proxy war for the west. We gain nothing and stand to lose everything.

A stable Russia is better for the world as a strong trade partner, than a war adversary.
 
to date, there have been over 2600 nuclear bomb tests made by America, Russia, China, France and others...
The world even saw the CZAR bomb which echoed and reverberated around the world 5 times with its shockwaves. A nuclear war carried out at the moment would not destroy and poison the entire world. Yes, there will be contaminations, poisonings, radiations and all the other things following the explosions.
I hear rosy pictures of nuclear war and just roll my eyes. Let me describe what would really occur in a nuclear war.

Those tests were spread out over decades and none of those tests were targeting civilian population centers, energy grids, food production, nuclear power plants, or military bases and munitions depots, all major trade ports, all manufacturing centers, all major airports, etc. Gone or irradiated and unsafe.

Taking a lesson from history, however, 23 small yield bombs were tested at the Bikini Atoll islands over a period of ~12 years from 1946-58. The Bikini Atoll remains unsafe levels of gamma radiation and uninhabitable today, 6 decades later.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/science...-standards-nearly-60-years-nuclear-tests.html
Modern nuclear weapons can reach targets in 5 - 15 minutes around the globe, and many launched off sea from subs. With so little warning, it's almost pointless to warn people and cause a panic. For most people during the typical day or night, they might not receive a warning or have anywhere to hide. What would you do with 5 minutes warning? Not a whole lot.

A superpower nuclear exchange would in fact probably immediately kill hundreds of millions or realistically several billion humans, and nearly all animal and insect life in these areas, on many continents mostly in the USA, Europe, and Russia. It's easy to think 50% of superpower nations' populations would die on day 1. So, 1/2 of the US (175 million), 1/2 of Russia (80 million), 1/2 of Europe (400 million), 1/2 of China (700 million), 1/2 of India (700 million), 1/2 of Japan (80 million), 1/2 of S. Korea (25 million), etc. Day 1, easy to predict that right there is 2.1 BILLION people. Another 25% die in week 1 from injuries, dehydration, local violence, sickness, suicide, etc. That's another billion people.

Probably other nations would launch too, so any nuclear armed nation plus adversaries would be struck. China, France, Pakistan, India, N. Korea, Japan, etc. would suffer badly in addition to the major players.

For instance, nearly all honey bees would be killed. You cannot grow anything, without honey bees. So you would have no more crops, no flowers, no fruit trees, nothing. No pollen. No bees. No agriculture. Period. Almost all livestock would be dead. Either killed instantly or in the first few weeks through poisoning or killed for food. Cows in Nebraska might survive the initial attack, but they'd eat grass and drink water infected with poison fallout. Then die. No livestock - no food. And no baby livestock. No eggs. No calves. No more. Gone.

So in addition to the probably billions dead on day 1-3, another couple billion would be dead in the first 6 months. Fatality numbers in the major countries would easily reach 80% or more in my view. Directly from the attacks, or any number of struggles among the survivors - injury, illness, violence, starvation, dehydration, radiation sickness, and suicide would easily claim billions of people in the first 6 months.

Of those maybe 20% survivors, their lineage survival rates would be very low due to the malnourishment of the mother, birth defects, or mother death in child birth (and lack of having a caring parent, no breast milk, no food, just an extra mouth to feed), and/or lack of baby food. Education/skill rates of those who might survive infancy to grow, would be at Neanderthal rates with no schooling, no traditions, no community, and simply put to work to survive at the earliest ages (8 years old, doing hard labor).

The northern hemisphere would be uninhabitable for a century as well as key industrial and urban areas of huge parts of the S. Hemisphere. No global trade, tribal warring for resources, etc.
Imagine all the poisons and toxins in society released in the air, the ash, the water. Radiation clouds and dirt blocking the sun, causing poison rain to fall on the earth and into water tables, etc.

The quick death and rot of hundreds of billions of animals and plantlife would overcome any sanitation attempts and the air would smell of rot decay for months. Rats would flourish, overcome any population areas, and spread black plague type diseases. All modern conveniences would cease - electricity, gasoline powered engines, plumbing, running clean water, waste disposal. Fires would burn out of control for years with nothing to suppress them except running out of fuel.

The global economy would be in tatters. Nearly all farmland in these regions would be poisoned from direct hits or fallout. The global economies and currency reduced to nothing. Barter economies would be the means of survival.

Any possible survivor in these entire regions would deal with physical injuries, emotional PTS injuries of unimaginable degrees, dehydration, starvation, malnutrition, infections, irradiated and toxic foods, untreated long-term ailments would lead to early death, limited or no medical treatment or medicines, literally die from pain, unchecked gang violence and crime, and defensive killings would claim huge % unimaginable today; basically living in hell so that suicide rates would probably reach 90% in these areas for these and more reasons.

Close your eyes for a moment, and imagine everyone you know, every creature, every human, every city, and every joy in life gone and destroyed or damaged or suffering badly. Kids, parents, siblings, spouse, friends, pets, livestock, coworkers - all gone. Your home. Your city. Your retirement plans. Gone. The guilt. The remorse. The anger. The lack of hope of ever having joy in life again, no family, no vacations, no holidays, no safety and comfort. Just pain, anguish, misery, and struggle for survival.

That's what a nuclear war means.
 
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I was a nuclear warhead specialist in Pershing from '78-'85 and signed for up to 27 - Y17 warheads personally...
I know all what you described before you were probably born unless you are also over 45 years old...
I also know that the number of persons on the earth who have prepped and have everything they need to rebuild and repopulate the earth, their herbal knowledge, the gardening knowledge, the amount of books they have accumulated for perpetuation of their family and friends if they get to survive and the amount of human desire to live in a new and harder life. The few years I served showed me the need for faith in our God and strength in numbers of like-minded persons.
Your words are correct, your predictions (or someone else's) are quite near the truth, your desire to show the readers here may be truthful and you may wish the right reactions...but, I believe that the most deaths will be from dehydration, hunger and cold. The lack of human contact will drive many insane and could lead to suicide.
The lack of bees and other insects could be balanced thru hand-pollenation, (as I do on my cherry tree now) and the strength of the survivors is not to be underestimated as they KNOW they are the future.
We all know (most of us) that this must all take place and prepare the way for the Lord that many of us believe in and wait for gladly. As the rest of the world is only "collecting money and things" along the lines of
--Whoever dies with the most toys wins--and the others are collecting knowledge and prepping, I must assume that those reading yours and my words of wisdom, hopefully, will not see much of the destruction of the
"momently existing world" and will be taken away according to our belief and at just the right moment.
I will gladly leave all my preps to those who remain behind should I die, as I cannot take it with me anyway.
IF they only have the knowledge to use half of the stuff I have prepped...they should be able to last a while.
Until then, live free from fear, Gary
 
Interesting things being floated from a preppers view . A so called Whistle blower claiming Old Demented Joe Biden ordered the pipeline blown up , war airplanes on the verge of being shipped into Ukraine " if I am not mistaken from the UK ". Whether any of these things swirling about is true , I don't know . What I do know is , that I am glad I took prepping serious and prepared for what may lay ahead . As on those apoplectic movies If a Nuclear World War 3 takes place , I don't expect there to be many survivors . My preps are in place as I have no intention of just declaring there is no use prepping for a Nuclear World War 3 and we are all going to die .
war planes are not, repeat NOT, on the verge of being shipped from the UK.
first the Ukrainian pilots have to be trained how to use them, that may start in the spring, sending jet planes to Ukraine from the UK is a long term aspiration nothing more.
if a nuclear War takes place anyone who wants to survive will need an underground bunker sealed away from all the contamination, and a way of growing their own food which will require a self sufficient power supply for heat and light for the crops as in a nuclear winter, anything up to 5 years, there will be no natural sunlight so solar panels will be useless, there is more to the nuclear threat than just storing some radiation suits.
its one thing saying that one is set up for nuclear war and then moaning when the electric goes off for a couple of days!!
 
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Do you hold the US behavior in invading and drastically interferring in foreign affairs, elections, and economies in the same regard?......

A stable Russia is better for the world as a strong trade partner, than a war adversary.

You answered your own question in that last line. Stability is why countries interfere in the foreign affairs and economies of other countries.

My heritage is of that part of the world and it is a historically more complex situation than you seem to understand. Russia was wrong to invade Ukraine. It is because of this action, that we are even talking about WWIII.
 
war planes are not, repeat NOT, on the verge of being shipped from the UK.
first the Ukrainian pilots have to be trained how to use them, that may start in the spring, sending jet planes to Ukraine from the UK is a long term aspiration nothing more.
if a nuclear War takes place anyone who wants to survive will need an underground bunker sealed away from all the contamination, and a way of growing their own food which will require a self sufficient power supply for heat and light for the crops as in a nuclear winter, anything up to 5 years, there will be no natural sunlight so solar panels will be useless, there is more to the nuclear threat than just storing some radiation suits.
its one thing saying that you are set up for nuclear war and then moaning when the electric goes off for a couple of days!!

What you are speaking of is a Nuclear Winter made famous by Carl Sagan "A Path Where No Man Thought" circa 1990...specialists in the area have, over the decades and with modern understanding and data have since disproven his theories.

It is highly likely, that if you are not within the immediate area, you could, with some thoughtful preparations, survive.
 
my location is nowhere near any govt or military target, but its the nuclear winter-anything up to 5 years- that will finish off any survivors.
it was bad enough over here when Chernobyl exploded, a lot of the land and animals were exposed to radiation and a nuclear war would be many times worse than that. 80% of the population of my country now live in big cities, so just by targeting those cities the enemy could wipe out 80% of the population + the ones that die later from radiation poisoning.
I am not alone in this opinion, I have talked to several preppers who hold the same thoughts.
 
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Hmmm. Norton just blocked the website link as "dangerous". Same happened when I linked to the story on Drudge. Somebody doesn't want it read. Didn't work through the search engine either...the only links that are working are the ones that cite Biden refuting it.

https://www.commondreams.org/news/seymour-hersh-nord-stream

Let the World understand one important FACT…America didn’t do this, the biden Regime, handled by the WEF did this!!!

Most AMERICANS are against removing life necessary supplies, like OIL, from others!
 
You answered your own question in that last line. Stability is why countries interfere in the foreign affairs and economies of other countries.

My heritage is of that part of the world and it is a historically more complex situation than you seem to understand. Russia was wrong to invade Ukraine. It is because of this action, that we are even talking about WWIII.

Our US government is wrong, corrupt and evil! I know it's a hard pill to swallow. Russia was justified in attacking Ukraine. We would and have done the same thing, except for different reasons.
 
the US has always interfered in other countries affairs, its what the govt has always done, from the Conchas to Afghanistan to Ukraine, and just because their might be an election next year dosent mean this policy will change anytime soon. its called "regime change", dont agree with some other countries politics so try to change the guy in charge to one who will do what the US wants, its a well known strategy, dosent make it right or even morally correct.
 
no it isnt right.
I think if anything dosent involve the home country's territory or its people then they should mind their own business and keep out of it.
the main occupation for any govt should be to keep the country secure and keep the people safe, anything else is secondry.
 
What was their justification?
An illegal international removal of a democratically elected leader, followed by the illegal "running" of the foreign country by then Vice-president Biden as "governor", followed by the 8 year long reign of terror on their own population in the east of the totally corrupted Ukraine which lead to over 14,000 deaths in the civilian population there, then, the DECIDEDLY open hate of the corruption in the western Ukraine led to the popular
"we-want-to-be-free-from-Kiev" in the eastern parts of Ukraine. Then (just like Croatia, Slovenia and Cosovo) after declaring their desires to be helped (and none came from NATO) they asked Putin to come and "help" and "save" them from the genocide coming from western Ukraine...
ANY OTHER STUPID QUESTIONS COMING FROM AN UN-INFORMED PERSON???
My grandfather once repeated a wise statement and I will repeat it again here FOR ALL READING!
""it is better that the whole world THINKS that you are stupid; THAN that you open your mouth and prove it""
The biggest mistake of Putin was that he did not just put his soldiers into the Luhansk and Donbass regions and protect them instead of attacking directly Kiev and other cities. He had a "protection" contract and not a "attack and destroy" contract. He is wrong now and WE ALL have to pay, taxes for weapons, accepting the refugees, seeing the destruction of a nation capable of feeding ALL OF EUROPE with its food production, and then, the total rebuilding of the destruction which is more expensive and takes longer than the war itself.
The bombs and rockets in All cities in Ukraine left DAMAGED buildings and infrastructure after 1 year...
The earthquake in Turkey and Syria has absolutely devastated and LEVELED the cities in a single day!!
The rest of the world and myself included had nothing to do with the Ukraine or Turkey---but we will have to see billions of tax dollars flow into both lands to re-build them in the next decade. When--oh, when--will mankind ever, ever learn to speak to the other side instead of shooting them???
The Ukraine would hardly miss the landscapes of Donbass and Luhansk if they had just said "ok, be free" and let go of the little piece of land there and the russian speaking peoples. They could all still be friends and making money and making love...but no...some ******* must always have the last word.
Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Mussolini, Franco, Castro, Bush, Putin, Zelensky...different names each time, but same motives, same example----SAME OUTCOME=dead civilians, dead countries, dead economies and
dead-end for those who survived and have to re-build...
 
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None of this happened in a vacuum. Those "Russian speaking Ukrainians" in eastern Ukraine were sent there by Russia to populate it with so called "Russian speaking Ukrainians."

What's the difference between that, and Mexico sending Mexicans into the the U.S. to populate it with "Spanish speaking Americans" other than the fact that the "Russian speaking Ukrainians" have been actively fighting in a shooting war with the "Ukrainian speaking Ukrainians" in eastern Ukraine for years, with Russia helping on the sly. This is who the AZOV nationalists have been actively fighting against, for years. That doesn't make the AZOV Nazis are any better human beings because they are despicable animals. But it is what they have been fighting against.

This is what Anaconda was documenting on this site, for years, starting way back in 2015. I'm sure there was more than a little propaganda in his posts, but that is precisely what his thread was about. You can read a complete blow-by-blow account (take it with a grain of salt) of the war that lead up the Russia's invasion:
https://www.doomsdayprepperforums.com/threads/latest-news-on-the-war-against-russia-official.6508/
These are the so-called "Russian speaking Ukrainians" that Russia invaded Eastern Ukraine to protect.
 
Totally mixed up situation. The serbs are doing the same in Cosovo again as they did in the rest of Yugoslavia back then and the turks are doing in Germany. If there are enough of one ethnic group there, then it is a part of the original nation and they have the right to revolt and proclaim their free province or enclave which has to be protected at all costs by the mother nation.
What is Zelensky going to do when the Hungarian president gets tired of seeing the hungarian minorities being forced into the war in Ukraine and decides to ANNEX the west side of Ukraine--because it was and is fully populated by hungarian speaking folk for over a thousand years now....will he have a war on two fronts then?
And the Polish right has let wind out of wanting to take over a large part of the Ukraine if they lose the war and make it Polish again. One third of Romania is and was always populated by Hungarians, the entire north side of what is now Serbia is and was populated by hungarians, the north and southwest of Croatia was all hungarian until the Austrians and Germans lost the "WWI" and Hungary was split up amongst the other nations.
How far will the insanity go?
 
None of this happened in a vacuum. Those "Russian speaking Ukrainians" in eastern Ukraine were sent there by Russia to populate it with so called "Russian speaking Ukrainians."

What's the difference between that, and Mexico sending Mexicans into the the U.S. to populate it with "Spanish speaking Americans" other than the fact that the "Russian speaking Ukrainians" have been actively fighting in a shooting war with the "Ukrainian speaking Ukrainians" in eastern Ukraine for years, with Russia helping on the sly. This is who the AZOV nationalists have been actively fighting against, for years. That doesn't make the AZOV Nazis are any better human beings because they are despicable animals. But it is what they have been fighting against.

This is what Anaconda was documenting on this site, for years, starting way back in 2015. I'm sure there was more than a little propaganda in his posts, but that is precisely what his thread was about. You can read a complete blow-by-blow account (take it with a grain of salt) of the war that lead up the Russia's invasion:
https://www.doomsdayprepperforums.com/threads/latest-news-on-the-war-against-russia-official.6508/
These are the so-called "Russian speaking Ukrainians" that Russia invaded Eastern Ukraine to protect.

There's 2 different things entwined. Ukraine is controlled by Evil forces that want to control the world and kill most of us as they do it. I thank Russia for fighting these evil F_ckers that I can't fight. Everything else is not really relevant for me.
 
Not trolled, my well informed friend, just as strong a comment as an answer to your comment that we all, already know and we have been living and discussing such scenarios for so long now that it is overkill to repeatedly tell the same story to us who have this info and do not need to be informed (and shell-shocked) over that which we already know...bring us some real up-to-date information that will help us to prepare for the upcoming possible WWIII and teach us something new!!! Welcome to the site and keep up the good work.
"The future of America lies in strong hands and hard men like you" ---Live free, Gary
 
性交 You. I can't ask a simple question on this group without getting flamed by trolling internet jackass like you?
Allow me to reiterate... 性交 You!
He's passionate about this because he lives in this area of the world. He's a really good guy.

This particular thread has just gotten heated over and over again, so it's a little tense. Some people are repeatedly passive aggressive or condescending. It can be hard to not read into other comments when you've already been insulted. 🙂
 
He's passionate about this because he lives in this area of the world.
Thank you sis. I have been living less than 150 miles from the Ukraine now since it began and we are seeing the developements getting worse. I did not mean to, nor need to troll anyone. But, as you said and we all know, this is a hot discussion and it has both sides with some right and some wrong. Oddcaliber said, nobody wins a war. We will possibly all be a witness to just that soon enough. I cannot be insulted either, the new guy knows what is up, he meant it good and just took it wrong...Maybe...I am often wrong. Live free, Gary
 
Thank you sis. I have been living less than 150 miles from the Ukraine now since it began and we are seeing the developements getting worse. I did not mean to, nor need to troll anyone. But, as you said and we all know, this is a hot discussion and it has both sides with some right and some wrong. Oddcaliber said, nobody wins a war. We will possibly all be a witness to just that soon enough. I cannot be insulted either, the new guy knows what is up, he meant it good and just took it wrong...Maybe...I am often wrong. Live free, Gary
We love ya, Gary. 😊
 
And the Polish right has let wind out of wanting to take over a large part of the Ukraine if they lose the war and make it Polish again.

And that is also wrong of them!!!

It just gets so tiring, this fight over what "belongs" to whom. The wisdom of Soloman is needed, but, we have no such leaders.
 
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Your words are correct, your predictions (or someone else's) are quite near the truth, your desire to show the readers here may be truthful and you may wish the right reactions...but, I believe that the most deaths will be from dehydration, hunger and cold. The lack of human contact will drive many insane and could lead to suicide.
The fact remains, billions will die instantly, billions more in the first 6 months. I would estimate at least 1/2 of the world would die in the first 6 months, so around 4 billion. Figure another billion or two in the subsequent year thru a variety of events previously discussed (dehydration, starvation, violence, factional resource wars, slavery, suicides, illness, injury, lack of even basic hygiene and medical care, medications, etc.).

These survivors would essentially be reset to the hardship lifestyles of the 1500s or so. That might be okay if one is brought up learning how to churn butter, til land, grow crops, etc. but the modern cultures do not have the knowledge or infrastructure. Going from a 1st world office job to being a survivor in the ashes would not be survivable for most people.

Some indeed will survive. But the odds are simply very bad, maybe 5-15%. For most, that existence would be a nightmare. Anyone who doesn't believe me here's a test: Cut your calorie intake to 500 calories per day. Your nutrition for the next 6 months is killing, cooking and eating rats, with your bare hands or basic hand tools. Drink only sour milk and eat only rotted spoiled veggies and fruits, in addition to cooked (or raw) rat meat, worms, small birds, etc. Drink only unfiltered water straight from your toilet bowl or mud puddles. Like your life depends on it. Stop all medical treatments, all medications, and allow yourself no hygiene and don't bathe for the next 6 months. Then report back on it, if you survive. Of course, don't do this, as you'll probably die or get extremely sick. It would be impossible to "replicate" the psychological torment of the aftermath of a nuclear attack. But just this small physical test is enough to prove a point. I doubt anyone here could do this, or is willing to "prove" they could by actually doing it. Many will make a lot of excuses why they cannot try.

The good news, perhaps, is that some regions will probably remain relatively safe from direct hits. I'm thinking huge regions in S. America which are of little tactical importance. Many of the cultures are relatively self sufficient, agrarian, low tech, etc. But unfortunately, they will still suffer the effects of global radiation, lack of trade, medical, possibly increases in chaos and crime, it's unknown.
 

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