Russia Versus The Ukraine

[Mountain Dragon]

Joe promises money to almost everyone, money that does not belong to him and that he actually does not own anymore when I look at the debt mountain of the USA.

He just do what every politican does - giving away other peoples with hard work earned money for useless things.

 

[Dani]

This American does not stand with Zelensky. . . . Maybe Biden needs to ask the American people before he makes comments like that.

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/20...ns-world-war-iii-if-china-allies-with-russia/
Zelenskyy made the comments during an interview with German newspaper Die Welt on Monday.

“For us, it is important that China does not support the Russian Federation in this war,” the Ukrainian president said. “In fact, I would like it to be on our side. At the moment, however, I don’t think it’s possible.”

Zelenskyy said that he hopes China will make a “pragmatic assessment” of what is happening to avoid additional conflict.


“Because if China allies itself with Russia, there will be a world war, and I do think that China is aware of that,” Zelenskyy threatened.

Zelenskyy’s threat came one day after US Secretary of State Anthony Blinken appeared on NBC’s “Meet the Press” and said that the US was “very concerned that China’s considering providing lethal support to Russia.” He warned China that such a move would have “serious consequences in our relationship.”

Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesperson Wang Wenbin responded on Monday and said that the US “is in no position to make demands of China.”


Joe Biden also met with Zelenskyy in Kyiv on Monday, though he still has not visited the people impacted by the disaster in East Palestine, Ohio.

During the visit, Biden pledged yet another $500 million in American taxpayer-funded weapons.

“One year later, Kyiv stands, Ukraine stands, democracy stands,” Biden said after meeting Zelensky at Mariinsky Palace. “The Americans stand with you and the world stands with you.”

 

[MrLemonade]

This situation stinks more and more of American imperialism, short-sightedness, and hypocrisy. WE can invade N. Korea, Vietnam, Afghanistan, and Iraq and elsewhere with impunity, places we have no business in. WE can break agreements in Eastern Europe with impunity. WE can provide direct military assistance to Ukraine, weapons that are killing Russians. WE can issue embargos and trade restrictions, seize assets. WE can commit terroristic acts like killing civilians (900,000+ during the GWOT), and blow up energy pipelines (which supply energy to our allies no less), and lie about it.

But Russia is not entitled to self defense, or pre-emptive moves to secure its border and people. Nobody else can support Russia with arms, or buy Russian goods. Russia is not entitled to protect its energy pipelines?

I've grown very tired of the leadership in the US getting the US into these messes in such dastardly ways, the corruption, the waste, the killing of innocent people (FYI the supplying of arms to Ukraine, is getting people needlessly killed. Similarly to the arms training and support of the Taliban and Mujahedeen in Afghanistan).

 

[Dani]

I'm tired of corrupt American leaders getting us involved in unnecessary wars. It's NOT our fight between Ukraine and Russia. Our country had peace under Trump. . . a person who should not have ever been elected according to the deep state.

 

[Dani]

It's all a script for Zelensky and Biden. . .
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/20...-until-biden-was-in-the-center-of-kiev-video/
Joe Biden made a surprise trip to Kiev, Ukraine on Monday.

When he walked with Ukrainian President Zelensky into the courtyard in Kiev the air sirens went off.



Biden was hailed as a ‘brave’ president with ‘guts’ to walk in a warzone.


Notice Biden’s stiffened gait as he walks alongside Volodymyr Zelensky.



But it’s all theater.

A CNN reporter who has been in Ukraine for the past five days revealed the game.

“I’ve been here for the past five days. I have not heard any explosions. I have not heard any air sirens, until about half an hour ago, right when President Biden was in the center of Kiev,” CNN’s Alex Marquardt said


What a joke.

 

[MrLemonade]

Total theater. What a joke.

 

[Mountain trapper]

Come on Vlad, don't you have a smart bomb or something that can take out Biden and his lackeys?

 

[rainingcatzanddogs]

Zelenski seems to have outlined what "victory" for Ukraine looks like. What is Putin's stated victory vision?

 

[MrLemonade]

Zelenski seems to have outlined what "victory" for Ukraine looks like. What is Putin's stated victory vision?

Zelenski is ultra corrupt. His "vision for victory" is enriching himself and defeating Russia. The former is likely, until he's assassinated. The latter is improbable. If Russia loses, it will feel existential threat and destroy the rest of the west threatening it. So likely nuclear weapons, and world war with nuclear weapons.

Putin's victory is to capture Ukraine and push the west out. The west has been parking threats there, interfering, and has bioweapons labs. That threatens Russia. Just like if Russia was doing that in Juarez, Mexico.

 

[Mountain trapper]

Heard today that our government has sent over $150,000,000,000 taxpayers dollars to Ukraine. That's wasted money that we'll never get back. When are people going to admit that we are broke. And that we have no business getting involved in other countries problems.

 

[EastenerWesterner]

Heard today that our government has sent over $150,000,000,000 taxpayers dollars to Ukraine. That's wasted money that we'll never get back. When are people going to admit that we are broke. And that we have no business getting involved in other countries problems.

Heard the big guy is getting 20% now. Hunter can stop selling artwork.

 

[tmttactical]

For those mad about the USA financially supporting the Ukraine, blame Russia for that. If they had stayed on their side of the border, the US politicians would not have an excuse to funnel tax payer money. Russia got greedy and the American tax payer is paying the price. Gee, thanks Russia for helping the corrupt officials get richer. Dumb Sh1ts.

 

[EastenerWesterner]

For those mad about the USA financially supporting the Ukraine, blame Russia for that. If they had stayed on their side of the border, the US politicians would not have an excuse to funnel tax payer money. Russia got greedy and the American tax payer is paying the price. Gee, thanks Russia for helping the corrupt officials get richer. Dumb Sh1ts.

I blame our dumba$$es in congress for supporting this.

 

[tmttactical]

I blame our dumba$$es in congress for supporting this.

I find the Russians guilty for enabling the corrupt politicians. No invasion, no money laundering. Corrupt officials are always looking for way to enrich themselves. Russia provided the prefect excuse. If Russia had stayed on their side of the border the politicians would not have had a humanitarian event to rally behind. No Invasion, no support monies. So yes, I hope Russia looses the war. Yes I hope the Russian economy tanks. Since we have to pay, I want Russia to pay even more.

 

[EastenerWesterner]

I find the Russians guilty for enabling the corrupt politicians. No invasion, no money laundering. Corrupt officials are always looking for way to enrich themselves. Russia provided the prefect excuse. If Russia had stayed on their side of the border the politicians would not have had a humanitarian event to rally behind. No Invasion, no support monies. So yes, I hope Russia looses the war. Yes I hope the Russian economy tanks. Since we have to pay, I want Russia to pay even more.

It was always Trump Russia Russia Russia.
With his businesses it should have bee China, China,China.
I think the Dems are in bed with Russia and Reps in bed with China.
JMHO.

 

[tmttactical]

It was always Trump Russia Russia Russia.
With his businesses it should have bee China, China,China.
I think the Dems are in bed with Russia and Reps in bed with China.
JMHO.

The politicians are in bed with whomever pays the most. Honor among thieves, maybe but never among politicians.

 

[poltiregist]

The world's economy is being blown away with the explosion of every missile , rocket or bomb . Those that have their self-sufficient capable homestead can simply set back and watch the world economy collapse , that is if the explosions don't get close and personal . As preppers have long predicted when SHTF the unprepared will become angry and desperate as they and their dependents see their accustomed way of life slip away .

 

[rainingcatzanddogs]

Zelenski is ultra corrupt. His "vision for victory" is enriching himself and defeating Russia. The former is likely, until he's assassinated. The latter is improbable. If Russia loses, it will feel existential threat and destroy the rest of the west threatening it. So likely nuclear weapons, and world war with nuclear weapons.

Putin's victory is to capture Ukraine and push the west out. The west has been parking threats there, interfering, and has bioweapons labs. That threatens Russia. Just like if Russia was doing that in Juarez, Mexico.

The question was not so much what we may THINK Russia's end game looks like, (there is a saying about opinions and a certain piece of anatomy) but, instead, what he has stated it is. Compare like to like. Just wondering what others have found...in Putin's own words.

As for Juarez...lots of bad things go on there, so who knows? Maybe there are such labs there.

 

[Bacon112179!!]

Heard today that our government has sent over $150,000,000,000 taxpayers dollars to Ukraine. That's wasted money that we'll never get back. When are people going to admit that we are broke. And that we have no business getting involved in other countries problems.

It's one of those hey look over here $1400 checks for you while I get this 150 billion to my account.

 

[GeorgiaPeachie]

Heard today that our government has sent over $150,000,000,000 taxpayers dollars to Ukraine. That's wasted money that we'll never get back. When are people going to admit that we are broke. And that we have no business getting involved in other countries problems.

When the money stops flowing to the Food Stamp cards…or whatever they are calling it these days. Of course it will be too late to salvage our monetary system by then. It needs to crash and burn. As awful as that will be, it will be strong Patriot Americans chance to return our country to the Constitution and throw off ALL the zillions of rotten laws.!

 

[Mountain trapper]

For those mad about the USA financially supporting the Ukraine, blame Russia for that. If they had stayed on their side of the border, the US politicians would not have an excuse to funnel tax payer money. Russia got greedy and the American tax payer is paying the price. Gee, thanks Russia for helping the corrupt officials get richer. Dumb Sh1ts.

It isn't their money to throw around. I don't blame Russia, I blame our war mongering government, the military and ignorant citizens who think war is the only answer. Plus those foolish enough to think that we are, and should be, the world's police force.
I'd like to see an audit on where every penny of this 150 billion tax payers dollars went. Seems like I'm one of the few who care about how and where my tax money is spent. Again, we are BROKE.

 

[user 7482]

So are we. Instead of financing a absolutely corrupt regime our governments better should fix the problems at home.

But - the 150 billion are an overall amount if I got that article right.
https://www.ifw-kiel.de/publication...ar-of-support-to-ukraine-us-leads-eu-follows/
And what makes me breath deep and slowly: A lot of our money makes it´s way into the warindustry of the US. They doubled their armouryexports in 2022 (into the EU - not Ukraine).
Germany will rise it´s warfunds up to 80.000.000.000 €. This will rise us up to the third place worldwide (1st is US, 2nd is China) ... I have no clue where that money will be printed - a real equivalent in value is not existing. We´ll see us in depression!

 

[MrLemonade]

For those mad about the USA financially supporting the Ukraine, blame Russia for that. If they had stayed on their side of the border, the US politicians would not have an excuse to funnel tax payer money. Russia got greedy and the American tax payer is paying the price. Gee, thanks Russia for helping the corrupt officials get richer. Dumb Sh1ts.

Your information is badly, factually, incorrect.

The US has been violating agreements with Russia and building up Ukraine for decades, which is a direct border threat to Russia. The US has sent weapons, weapon defense systems, provided training, and established bioweapons labs, in addition to direct election interference there in 2014 to install a pro-western government. The west has at least courted NATO membership to Ukraine. It was these actions, which forced Russia's hands to put a stop to it.

A NATO leader ( posted earlier in this thread) admitted this war started in 2014. Well, how is that possible that it's somehow Russia's fault considering Russia didn't take serious military action until 2022?

Furthermore, none of this would have occurred if the west stayed out of aiding Ukraine. Russia tried for many months, to negotiate a peaceful surrender. Without western support, and our proxy war desires, Ukraine would have surrendered without a shot fired and no deaths. Instead, the west has pumped weapons into Ukraine and committed terroristic acts against Russian (and NATO) property and security by blowing up the Nordstream energy pipelines. And you think RUSSIA is the bad guy in this story?

All of these deaths, destruction, suffering, etc. is probably 80-90% the fault of the west using Ukraine like a pawn in a twisted dangerous game.

Around the internet, I see so much pro-western bravado, that lacks analytical, research, or analogy abilities. What I wrote is widely available on the internet, not hard to find. And no American would allow Russian buildup on our border, but we expect Russia - a world superpower with more powerful nuclear arsenal than the US - to just sit by and accept our aggression? Sit by and allow the Nordstream pipeline destruction to go un-answered? That's extremely disrespectful to Russia and violates global harmony.

Not long ago, Russia was an excellent secure trade partner with the west. Now here we are, fingers on the buttons, killing Russians and waiting for them to finally reach a point where they punch back.

I've asked this before, but nobody will answer. How many US cities are worth trading for this fight in Ukraine? How many European cities are worth it? Say Russia knocks down Paris, or London, or Dallas. Or major miltiary bases, or hits a few of our nuclear power plants and cripples our grids whilst creating a ecological disaster. Folks like you will again, blame Russia for acting in defense.

This is like kicking a peaceful dog every day, and then it bites you, and you blame the dog. You kick it harder, and it attacks you. Then you put the dog down as being violent. But in this case, it's not a dog, its a bear that can rip you to shreds. Russia is a bear, that can completely destroy the US and Europe in nuclear holocaust. Sure, we can hit them too. Nobody wins.

Over fighting about who controls Ukraine. THIS IS MADNESS!

 

[MrLemonade]

There are 3 well-done movies deserving of attention that I encourage every person reading this forum to watch as soon as possible. If you want to have any idea of the hell that awaits us all as this escalates into a massive unstoppable war with incalculable losses and suffering, watch these 3 films. Hopefully they wake up anyone who thinks this engagement with Russia is smart and dial back the insanity.

Watch and share these, as soon as possible. These are all from around 1983-84, height of the cold war with significant widespread fears of nuclear war.

1. Threads. Currently Free at two locations: Youtube and the Archives.



2. The Day After. Currently free on Youtube.


3. Testament. You might have to buy this one for a few bucks.


Honorable Mention is the film, The Road. Made about 20 years ago.

 

[tmttactical]

I don't care about the various countries backstabbing each other. That has been going on since the dawn of time. What I do care about is when countries invade another countries. I did not like it when the USA did it and I don't like it when Russia or any other country does it. Down through time, nations have found some excuse to invade another country. These excuses to not impress me. I don't give a darn what language a percentage of a nations people speak. I don't care if their grandpappy was from a different nation. If every country would simply stay within their own borders, that would be the end of major wars. Bottom line, nations invade other nations for power, money and territory. Everything else is just an excuse.

 

[MrLemonade]

I don't care about the various countries backstabbing each other. That has been going on since the dawn of time. What I do care about is when countries invade another countries. I did not like it when the USA did it and I don't like it when Russia or any other country does it. Down through time, nations have found some excuse to invade another country. These excuses to not impress me. I don't give a darn what language a percentage of a nations people speak. I don't care if their grandpappy was from a different nation. If every country would simply stay within their own borders, that would be the end of major wars. Bottom line, nations invade other nations for power, money and territory. Everything else is just an excuse.

I agree in part. But let's develop this with an analogy.

Arizona, where you apparently live, breaks off from the US and declares sovereignty. Russia, having agreed to not interfer, engages in arms buildup in Arizona.

What is an appropriate US response to these events?

 

[Dani]

 

[tmttactical]

I agree in part. But let's develop this with an analogy.

Arizona, where you apparently live, breaks off from the US and declares sovereignty. Russia, having agreed to not interfer, engages in arms buildup in Arizona.

What is an appropriate US response to these events?

You kill all the traitors and then kill anybody selling arms to them. but you do not start a war by invading the suppliers country.. The USA supplied stinger missiles to Afghanistan fighters. Anybody caught supplying arms was killed. Russia did not invade the USA. Russia / China supplied arms and fighters to the Vietcong. The USA killed anybody caught supply arms to the cong. We did not invade either China or Russia. Like I said countries backstab each other all the time. The American tax payer is again footing the bill. If Russia had stayed on their side of the border and just been content with the typical backstabbing (supplying arms to the rebels), we would all be better off. Now many thousands of soldiers on both sides are being killed or injured and the industrial war machine is getting richer by the day. Russia went for a power grab and it has bitten them on the butt. Russia has gotten itself into a no win situation. Even if they are able to take control of the Ukraine, they will be stuck fighting a guerilla war for the next several decades. AND the industrial war machine will continue to profit. The world does not really want world peace, that is all talk. Nations will make up excuses to go to war and the civilians will again pay, one way or the other. I am not an old hippy wanting a kumbaya moment. I am a realist that actually does understand why wars are fought and it is always over power, money and territory.

 

[MrLemonade]

You kill all the traitors and then kill anybody selling arms to them. but you do not start a war by invading the suppliers country.. The USA supplied stinger missiles to Afghanistan fighters. Anybody caught supplying arms was killed. Russia did not invade the USA. Russia / China supplied arms and fighters to the Vietcong. The USA killed anybody caught supply arms to the cong. We did not invade either China or Russia.

None of this answers the question analogy I presented. Other than supporting the fact that in the analogy, you would agree that the US has the right to reclaim Arizona, punish the traitors, and kick out Russia.

That's almost exactly what Russia is doing with Ukraine! A nation that has been part of Russia longer than it wasn't in the last century or more.

So it appears that you are internally inconsistent with how Russia should be responding. It's effectively reclaiming Ukraine, and pushing the west back.

Russia went for a power grab and it has bitten them on the butt. Russia has gotten itself into a no win situation. Even if they are able to take control of the Ukraine, they will be stuck fighting a guerilla war for the next several decades.

I think that a lot of people need to wake up to these facts.
1. Russia will either win this conflict, or the northern hemisphere will become uninhabitable from nuclear war. I do not see a plausible outcome where Russia loses, withdraws, and allows Ukraine to be built up by the west on their doorstep.

2. The west and the US are extremely weak here. The globe is aligning against us. I know that's very hard for Americans to understand but we are in a decline. Our infrastructure, our debt, our military, or social morals, or decaying culture and society.... We provide no value to the world, we don't make much of anything, we import most goods, etc. Our dollar is on the brink of collapsing.

It's the US, and nobody else, that has been the global bully for decades. We've invaded almost every nation, put bases everywhere, and committed atrocities, election tampering, etc. around the globe. Pushing our views and killing millions of civilians spreading our brand of empire. I think the world is finally getting sick of it.

Half of the globe's population is aligning against us. Russia (150M), China (1.4B), India (1.4B), Iran, Saudi Arabia, Brazil, Iraq. They are all working to drop the US dollar as global standards of currency. This week China and some other nations aligned with Russia.

This fight is very winnable by Russia because Russia is simply going to bleed Ukraine dry of men, and they are almost at that point. Arms are not much good without a military to fight. Is NATO or the US going to send men? I doubt it. It would be a big mistake.

Some people think the world needs the US to buy their stuff. Not really. The US has only about 330M people. We are very replaceable with nations that are entering the 1st world, like India (1.4B) and S. America, and African nations. China can get food and oil from Russia and oil from the Middle East whereas America can be cut off from oil. Russia is building a oil pipeline to China. China is making huge inroads in Africa for oil and minerals as well.

America is, unfortunately, committing global suicide in so many ways but this escalating war threatens to bleed us economically and of resources, while the world dumps the dollar. If the world drops the dollar as the standard currency we will see our standards of living fall off a cliff.

 

[MrLemonade]

The US simply does not have the resources to fund a conventional war in Ukraine long term, and our losses would be more than Americans can stomach. I see very little NATO commitment of troops and resources, perhaps a bit more than they did with OIF and OEF, which was barely anything. Furthermore, that's just fighting Russia in Ukraine. One must not forget that Russia can strike the US with any manner of attacks.

And that doesn't even factor that while our resources are tied up there, China with 1.4B people and a peer military, and N. Korea, will indeed be taking advantage of our distractions in Ukraine. So are we going to split our forces on a 2 front war in Asia and Eastern Europe?

How about a 3-front war, when Iran decides to attack Israel?

America and Europe are close to being in a check-mate here. Europe doesn't have energy. It got lucky this mild winter and the US sold energy to Europe from our reserves. Where is it going to get energy?

Every major western nation is teetering on financial defaults.

We don't have the money, we don't have the military abilities to fight all these superpowers, we are outmatched in the nuclear weapons arena. Our economies are extremely weak service and entertainment industry based...

How does anyone feasibly think the US with an aging population of 330M is going to take on 1/2 of the world mostly by ourselves with a small help from NATO?