Understanding Narcissism and Narcissists

[Weedygarden]

This post came up in one of my narcissism groups tonight. I want to save it here, because I know I will want to revisit this story a few times. This was posted by a man, a police officer, about his wife.

"I need to share part of my story to heal. This is very hard for me. Its hard because I'm a guy. Its been a long road. I'm safe now. But the wounds are still there. I'm working on healing.
Going shopping was always stressful for me. I was never allowed to get what I wanted without permission. Sometimes I was told I couldn't get something because I didn't eat it last time, even if that was not true. Sometimes she would tell me she was not spending her money on that. I was never allowed to go shopping by myself without asking permission. I always had to have my phone on me ready to answer it if it rang. If I got the wrong brand I would be told how dumb and useless I was and how I never did anything right. If I bought myself something not on the list, I would get questioned why I needed such item. Or asked why I didn't ask first. If I told her I made money too, she would always say how she made more money, or say that I was selfish and always spending money on myself or not her. Just depended on her mood.
I couldn't fill my gas tank and always had to keep it under 20.00. I was never allowed to fill up. I would get yelled at if I did.
Every month she would go through the paper bank statement and question me on every purchase. What I bought there and why i needed it. If I couldn't answer or remember, she would continue to ask me why I couldn't remember if that's someplace I was…. She would count up the totals and tell me how much money I wasted.
Eventually I opened up my own bank account on the side for me to manage because I felt like I didn't have access to money without being verbally and emotionally abused. I kept this account secret. Until I eventually told her which she always made statements about. Like I was selfish with my money and it didn't benefit the family.
She would spend hundreds a month on house decor. When ever I brought it up, I would get screamed at. It was scary at times. She would tell me how I didn't have a say and It was for the house and whole family. I would be forced to go shopping with her. I wasn't allowed to stay home. Everything was fine for me If I didn't question or disagree with anything.
If we got into an argument it was bad. She would tell me how useless I was, She would sometimes throw things, slam doors, hit me, and scream at the top of her lungs. If we were in the car she would pull over and tell me to get out and walk home when we were still really far away. I would refuse to but it felt like I was in danger. Once she picked up a hammer and threatened to hit me with it. I wasn't allowed to leave. She would hide my keys, phone and wallet from me. Depending which ones she could get. She would refuse to give them back until I apologized. Sometimes she would block the doorway so I couldn't leave. She would threaten me that if I called the police she would tell them I beat her. I couldn't afford that because I was a Police Officer and I would have been discharged from duty on bad terms and an internal investigation would have been done. I never touched her and just sat down, she would belittle and put me down and scream. Nothing was off limits.
She was very good at lying and manipulating. She would cry alot. She could do it on purpose. She would tell me how the argument was all my fault for being so stupid. And it was my fault she reacted that way. At the end I believed her. I was useless. Stupid. Unattractive. Selfish.
This was just part of my life on a daily basis."

 

[Spikedriver]

This post came up in one of my narcissism groups tonight. I want to save it here, because I know I will want to revisit this story a few times. This was posted by a man, a police officer, about his wife.

"I need to share part of my story to heal. This is very hard for me. Its hard because I'm a guy. Its been a long road. I'm safe now. But the wounds are still there. I'm working on healing.
Going shopping was always stressful for me. I was never allowed to get what I wanted without permission. Sometimes I was told I couldn't get something because I didn't eat it last time, even if that was not true. Sometimes she would tell me she was not spending her money on that. I was never allowed to go shopping by myself without asking permission. I always had to have my phone on me ready to answer it if it rang. If I got the wrong brand I would be told how dumb and useless I was and how I never did anything right. If I bought myself something not on the list, I would get questioned why I needed such item. Or asked why I didn't ask first. If I told her I made money too, she would always say how she made more money, or say that I was selfish and always spending money on myself or not her. Just depended on her mood.
I couldn't fill my gas tank and always had to keep it under 20.00. I was never allowed to fill up. I would get yelled at if I did.
Every month she would go through the paper bank statement and question me on every purchase. What I bought there and why i needed it. If I couldn't answer or remember, she would continue to ask me why I couldn't remember if that's someplace I was…. She would count up the totals and tell me how much money I wasted.
Eventually I opened up my own bank account on the side for me to manage because I felt like I didn't have access to money without being verbally and emotionally abused. I kept this account secret. Until I eventually told her which she always made statements about. Like I was selfish with my money and it didn't benefit the family.
She would spend hundreds a month on house decor. When ever I brought it up, I would get screamed at. It was scary at times. She would tell me how I didn't have a say and It was for the house and whole family. I would be forced to go shopping with her. I wasn't allowed to stay home. Everything was fine for me If I didn't question or disagree with anything.
If we got into an argument it was bad. She would tell me how useless I was, She would sometimes throw things, slam doors, hit me, and scream at the top of her lungs. If we were in the car she would pull over and tell me to get out and walk home when we were still really far away. I would refuse to but it felt like I was in danger. Once she picked up a hammer and threatened to hit me with it. I wasn't allowed to leave. She would hide my keys, phone and wallet from me. Depending which ones she could get. She would refuse to give them back until I apologized. Sometimes she would block the doorway so I couldn't leave. She would threaten me that if I called the police she would tell them I beat her. I couldn't afford that because I was a Police Officer and I would have been discharged from duty on bad terms and an internal investigation would have been done. I never touched her and just sat down, she would belittle and put me down and scream. Nothing was off limits.
She was very good at lying and manipulating. She would cry alot. She could do it on purpose. She would tell me how the argument was all my fault for being so stupid. And it was my fault she reacted that way. At the end I believed her. I was useless. Stupid. Unattractive. Selfish.
This was just part of my life on a daily basis."

I find myself both shaking my head, and empathizing with that guy. I didn't have it as bad as that guy, but I was told I was worthless, couldn't do anything right, all that stuff. That fellow's wife used the threat of ending his career against him. My ex used the threat of leaving with our young daughter against me. The helpless feeling is overwhelming...

 

[Amish Heart]

So sad. Narcs have no heart.
I called and vented to my sis today. Mom was horrible at her doctor's appt to me. All sweet and fine till we got in the room for a 6 month routine check up. When asked if she had any depression, she said only when her youngest daughter, her baby, yelled at her when she called. She said the daughter screams, "Why are you calling me? What do you want?". And treats her so bad. Then she turns and looks at me, as I'm shaking my head no to the nurse. She does this again to the doctor, and I finally had to step in and tell him that it's not true. Her dementia is getting bad, and he is upping her dementia meds a bit. She's been on the lowest amount. Then of course we take her to lunch, and I meet with her nurse at assisted living to talk about her med adjustment. Then clean up in her apartment. Then home for the kids to get home. Have to pick her up for the dentist tomorrow, and I'm not going in for her exam. Don't care. She goes back to the doc in a month.
She talks awful about me and makes junk up right in front of people. She's a jerk. I would never stoop so low to be mean to her and she knows it.

 

[Weedygarden]

I find myself both shaking my head, and empathizing with that guy. I didn't have it as bad as that guy, but I was told I was worthless, couldn't do anything right, all that stuff. That fellow's wife used the threat of ending his career against him. My ex used the threat of leaving with our young daughter against me. The helpless feeling is overwhelming...

It is quite a story. I know it will be on my mind for a few days or maybe longer. We mostly think of abuse in marriages as being against women, and perhaps it is, but stories like this let us know that it is not just men abusing women.

I heard of a man that I knew who was abused by his wife. I was much younger then and could not comprehend it. Abuse against men must be much more degrading, imho. This woman in this story was overt in her behavior. Some narcs are more covert. Women can be so manipulative.

 

[Weedygarden]

So sad. Narcs have no heart.
I called and vented to my sis today. Mom was horrible at her doctor's appt to me. All sweet and fine till we got in the room for a 6 month routine check up. When asked if she had any depression, she said only when her youngest daughter, her baby, yelled at her when she called. She said the daughter screams, "Why are you calling me? What do you want?". And treats her so bad. Then she turns and looks at me, as I'm shaking my head no to the nurse. She does this again to the doctor, and I finally had to step in and tell him that it's not true. Her dementia is getting bad, and he is upping her dementia meds a bit. She's been on the lowest amount. Then of course we take her to lunch, and I meet with her nurse at assisted living to talk about her med adjustment. Then clean up in her apartment. Then home for the kids to get home. Have to pick her up for the dentist tomorrow, and I'm not going in for her exam. Don't care. She goes back to the doc in a month.
She talks awful about me and makes junk up right in front of people. She's a jerk. I would never stoop so low to be mean to her and she knows it.

I was always the quiet and apologetic person in my family. I have apologized for things that didn't happen. Narcs must get some great satisfaction from abusing people like this. It makes me sick. It doesn't work for one of my narcs now and when I no longer react, she gets so angry at me. She has lost control.

 

[Spikedriver]

It is quite a story. I know it will be on my mind for a few days or maybe longer. We mostly think of abuse in marriages as being against women, and perhaps it is, but stories like this let us know that it is not just men abusing women.

I heard of a man that I knew who was abused by his wife. I was much younger then and could not comprehend it. Abuse against men must be much more degrading, imho. This woman in this story was overt in her behavior. Some narcs are more covert. Women can be so manipulative.

Narcissism doesn't know gender. I don't think my ex wife is a true narc, but her mother is one, big time. So my ex grew up seeing her mom's behavior as normal and thought that was how marriage is supposed to be. Ex has apologized several times to me for some of the things that happened, and narcs don't tend to take any responsibility for the problems they cause. That's why I think she's not really a narc...

 

[Weedygarden]

Narcissism doesn't know gender. I don't think my ex wife is a true narc, but her mother is one, big time. So my ex grew up seeing her mom's behavior as normal and thought that was how marriage is supposed to be. Ex has apologized several times to me for some of the things that happened, and narcs don't tend to take any responsibility for the problems they cause. That's why I think she's not really a narc...

How fortunate to have her realize where she was wrong and for her to apologize. You are right. Narcs are incapable of taking responsibility for the problems they cause. They have fragile egos and cannot ever be wrong, and therefore, can never apologize.

 

[Amish Heart]

Mom sure can't apologize, and she makes up stuff and then believes it. She's been this way even before the dementia. I deal with it by blowing it off, not reacting to her. Then I just ignore her. Unfortunately, teen granddaughter is showing her narc pretty bad as late. Lying, manipulation, no empathy for anyone. It's tough to watch, and I think she's going to have a hard time in life because of it.

 

[Spikedriver]

Mom sure can't apologize, and she makes up stuff and then believes it. She's been this way even before the dementia. I deal with it by blowing it off, not reacting to her. Then I just ignore her. Unfortunately, teen granddaughter is showing her narc pretty bad as late. Lying, manipulation, no empathy for anyone. It's tough to watch, and I think she's going to have a hard time in life because of it.

I think there's hope for her. I think teens tend to go through narc-like phases. Part of the maturing process is learning how to interact with everyone around us, and teen hormones seem to screw up their perception of what's appropriate or not...

 

[Amish Heart]

I know some of it is natural, we've raised five kids. But she goes way beyond that, and does not care about anybody's feelings, even her twin brother. She ignores me when she's on a roll, which is ok. I just don't ask her questions anymore, because she seems incapable of telling the truth. Her twin, though, she likes to torment. She gets him worked up over anything and upsets him on purpose. He's pretty sensitive. Noticed that she can never keep more than one friend, and of course, that friend needs to be bossed by her. I still have hope for her, but she's 16, and a very mean one at that.

 

[Weedygarden]

Mom sure can't apologize, and she makes up stuff and then believes it. She's been this way even before the dementia. I deal with it by blowing it off, not reacting to her. Then I just ignore her. Unfortunately, teen granddaughter is showing her narc pretty bad as late. Lying, manipulation, no empathy for anyone. It's tough to watch, and I think she's going to have a hard time in life because of it.

I wonder if therapy would be helpful for her? Everything I've read says that narcissism is incurable, but I wonder if someone, who is a professional, could reach her unlike a family member could? One thing I've seen in the narcissism groups is that finding a therapist who is knowledgeable about narcissism, and is able to truly help people is rare. I find this sad, especially when there are so many groups for narcissism, and at least one of them has well over 80,000 members.

 

[Amish Heart]

I can't imagine her talking to a therapist. She talks nonstop, and I mean nonstop until people walk away from her. But it's all about how great she is, how her flowers are the most beautiful, her apartment is the most beautiful, and how supposedly people have wronged her. She doesn't pause for breath to listen!
While we were waiting for my husband to finish his apartment, I told her that I don't speak to her like that when she calls. I always say, "Hi Mom! How's your day going?" She scowled and said, "No you dont!" I told her I am not even rude to people I don't like. She is not convinced. At the moment she is convinced that the maintenance man that died from a heart problem at home a few weeks ago actually died where she lives. And that she saw him being wheeled down her hallway on a box mover. She told the activities director about it, and she told her to stop it. Once she gets going on something, she doesn't give it up. She did tell my sis yesterday that she is mad that I am friends with my favorite cousin and I should be spending more time with her.

 

[Weedygarden]

I can't imagine her talking to a therapist. She talks nonstop, and I mean nonstop until people walk away from her. But it's all about how great she is, how her flowers are the most beautiful, her apartment is the most beautiful, and how supposedly people have wronged her. She doesn't pause for breath to listen!
While we were waiting for my husband to finish his apartment, I told her that I don't speak to her like that when she calls. I always say, "Hi Mom! How's your day going?" She scowled and said, "No you dont!" I told her I am not even rude to people I don't like. She is not convinced. At the moment she is convinced that the maintenance man that died from a heart problem at home a few weeks ago actually died where she lives. And that she saw him being wheeled down her hallway on a box mover. She told the activities director about it, and she told her to stop it. Once she gets going on something, she doesn't give it up. She did tell my sis yesterday that she is mad that I am friends with my favorite cousin and I should be spending more time with her.

I feel for you. My narc grandmother was so mean and unkind and I got as far away from her as I could. I wonder if many narcs get crazier as they age?
I meant grand daughter seeing a therapist.

 

[Amish Heart]

Oh! Thought you meant mom..
I've encouraged her to talk to her school counselor, who seems like a nice young lady. She seems to have issues with being friends with other girls, and of course, it's always their fault. So far she's turned us down. She is happy when she's getting her way, and that's about it lately.
I think narcs do get crazier as they age, especially if they can't get enough people around them to bother. Mom hasn't driven in years, so she's stuck where she lives unless I bring her out. They do have an activities bus, but she refuses. She can join in with the activities at the place she lives, but she really doesn't like anyone so she has a hard time with that. I think she's getting crazier because of the dementia. Looking back, though, I left home at 16. After I got married, I never lived near her at all, and probably had more interaction with her the last five years than ever before. My sisters were sent off to live with their dad as teens. She never really mothered any of us, so we have a hard time now. Sometimes we'll put ourselves out for her, and sometimes just sick of her meanness. Well, she's 88, almost 89. In great health, but won't live forever. One sis hasn't come here to see her for four years, and probably won't come till she dies, but I don't blame her. She wishes she was young and could still go out looking sexy and barhopping. She really misses it. I can't relate really.

 

[Weedygarden]

This is really how I first became aware of narcissism, long after I had experienced it, because of a former colleague who was arrested and then identified as a pedophile, and narcissist.

This video may not be easy for some to watch. Her voice bothers me.

 

[Weedygarden]

https://www.wellandgood.com/what-is...x1O1PohYWZxXar_j-lJYDKzN3zyclPrdkSR0lQ2BBLvm0Memorize This Conversation Formula to Stop Gaslighting Before It Starts

It’s happened to me countless times before: I’d voiced a feeling, an opinion, or a firmly held belief to an ex, only to be told that I was making it up, faking it, or—my favorite—“crazy.” I wish I could say I ran faster out of that relationship than an Olympic track and field champion, but that was far from the case. Instead, I made excuses for his behavior, clinging on to that charming and supportive display that lured me in in the first place. This is what gaslighting is.

What makes gaslighting so dangerous is that we often don’t realize it’s happening to us until years down the road. “It’s a technique used to manipulate and distort. The greater the level of self-doubt, the easier it becomes for the gaslighter to dictate situations to their liking,” explains Sarah Jane Crosby, a Dublin-based psychotherapist. It’s a relief to know I’m not the only one who couldn’t see the signs. Crosby says that since gaslighting is a relatively new term, many of us never had the language to defend ourselves—let alone identify how we felt. “As a collective, it was something we’ve been largely unconscious to.”
https://www.wellandgood.com/misuse-gaslighting/
But that’s slowly changing. Fortunately, Crosby proves it’s possible to have the foresight and tools to stop a gaslighter in their tracks (so that, unlike me, you don’t spend another moment tethered to an abusive situation you assumed was your fault). In a series of recent Instagram posts, she offers tangible tips on how to identify a gaslighter (“their actions don’t match their words, they lie and deny things even when there is proof, and they attempt to block or are unsupportive of your growth”) followed by common phrases gaslighters use to leverage their power (“Why are you being so sensitive? Can’t you just let that go already? How would you cope without me?”). Finally, she provides a script you can borrow the next time you’re mid-conversation with a gaslighter, and need to put them in their place.

Phrases to shut down a gaslighting in any situation

• "We remember things differently."
• "If you continue to speak to me like this I’m not engaging."
• "I hear you and that isn’t my experience."
• "I am walking away from this conversation."
• "I am not interested in debating what happened with you."
• "I will speak to you about [A+B]. I’m not willing to speak to you about [C]."

We often associate gaslighting with romantic relationships, but the office can also be a breeding ground for this insidious form of emotional abuse. If it’s happening to you, Crosby encourages you talk to HR. “When this isn’t possible, we need to work on forming solid boundaries around what we’re willing to give and say to this individual,” she says. Leaving said situation is your most effective form of protection, but it might not always be feasible, especially in an office setting. In that case, Crosby recommends you “log your reality” and chat about your experiences with a therapist every week, and getting your hands on any related reading material (like this or this).

No matter the context, Crosby urges you to remember emotional abuse isn’t your fault, but the choice of the abuser. “With kindness and compassion, take all the energy we’ve been giving these relationships and focus it inward. It’s time to come home to yourself,” she says.

 

[Weedygarden]

https://www.wellandgood.com/types-of-narcissists/
The 6 types of narcissists, explained

1. The toxic narcissist
There’s a range of toxic narcissism, and none of it is good. A toxic narcissist “continually causes drama in others’ lives at the very least and causes pain and destruction at the very worst,” says clinical psychologist John Mayer, PhD.

So, if you happen to have a friend who constantly demands all of your time and attention—and doesn’t respond well when you don’t meet those demands—you may be dealing with a toxic narcissist. Likewise, if someone in your life has caused more extreme issues, like gotten you fired from your job, physically abused you, or led to the end of a relationship, they may be a toxic narcissist as well.

2. The psychopathic narcissist
A psychopath is an unstable, aggressive person, and these traits also show up in the psychopathic narcissist. A psychopathic narcissist, which is a type of toxic narcissist, will often be violent and show no remorse for their behavior. “Serial killers largely make up this type of narcissist,” Dr. Mayer says.

3. The closet narcissist
Often trickier to spot than other types of narcissists, because the person isn’t always obvious about their disorder, “a closet narcissist is one who doesn’t inflict their personality upon others or society but firmly believes in the characteristics of narcissism,” says Dr. Mayer. That can mean a host of things, including feeling entitled, constantly needing other people to admire them, being preoccupied with success, being jealous of other people, and lacking empathy for others.

“They’re a bit more codependent,” says psychotherapist Alisa Ruby Bash, PsyD, LMFT. “They often try to pretend that they’re really selfless, but like to associate themselves with someone that they admire and ride their coattails.”

4. The exhibitionist narcissist
The exhibitionist narcissist is on the opposite end of the narcissism spectrum from the closet narcissist. “This is the narcissist who lets everyone around them know that they are narcissistic,” says Dr. Mayer, adding that this person takes advantage of other people and is often haughty and arrogant. They’re also blatant about their self-centered behavior. “They need to be in the spotlight and get uncomfortable when they’re not,” Dr. Bash says.

5. The bullying narcissist
This person combines two terrible traits: bullying and self-absorption. Bullying narcissists build themselves up by trashing other people, Dr. Mayer says. They’re often fixated on winning and will mock or threaten others to get their way. They ultimately get joy from making other people feel bad, small, or unworthy. This is different from a “regular” bully who tends to put people down for social gain, where a bullying narcissist does it for personal motivation.

6. The seducer narcissist
This is a particularly tricky type of narcissist: The seducer will “make you feel great about yourself just to ‘win’ you over as a sexual or love conquest,” Dr. Mayer says. They will often seem to admire or fawn over you, only to write you off once they no longer have a use for you.

Which type of narcissist to avoid at all costs
Ultimately, it’s not great to have any kind of narcissist in your life if you can help it, Doares says. But since the toxic narcissist is actually dangerous to be around, this is the one to avoid. (This holds true for the psychopathic narcissist, which is, again, a type of toxic narcissist.)“Other kinds of narcissists aren’t going to go out of their way to hurt somebody—they’re just obsessed with themselves," Dr. Bash says. "But a toxic narcissist may actually hurt someone.”

Of course, all types of narcissist stand to lead to hurt, but it's the element of intention that sets toxic apart. To protect yourself, take stock in the people who surround you. Ask yourself which ones make you feel good and whether some might be a narcissist worth cutting from your life.

 

[Amish Heart]

My mom is ignoring me. Hasn't called in a week and a half, actually since the day after the dentist appt. The doc appt is where she said I yell at her, and we haven't addressed that gaslighting. So it's been a nice, quiet week. I either walk away, or say, "That's not true at all".

 

[Weedygarden]

At least she says it in front of you. My narc sister tells things and then says, "You didn't hear that from me." That is covert. Then when confronted about it, she gets enraged. I don't have a reaction. I just say, "Oh, okay." That just makes her even more angry. But I am not reacting in the way she wants. She wants me to be upset, and I am over it.

 

[Amish Heart]

She does. She'll say bad things about me that she's made up to people I care about. Then they get really upset with her and call me and tell me. I just say she's nuts and don't worry about it. One of my sister's says she is really on a rant thinking I'm hanging out with my favorite cousin every day, and she's very jealous. She used to be jealous of my husband, but not lately. We'll see how long she holds out about calling. Then she'll act like nothing happened, or she will say I ignore her and never call her. I'll play this one indifferent.

 

[Weedygarden]

She does. She'll say bad things about me that she's made up to people I care about. Then they get really upset with her and call me and tell me. I just say she's nuts and don't worry about it. One of my sister's says she is really on a rant thinking I'm hanging out with my favorite cousin every day, and she's very jealous. She used to be jealous of my husband, but not lately. We'll see how long she holds out about calling. Then she'll act like nothing happened, or she will say I ignore her and never call her. I'll play this one indifferent.

I think being competitive and jealous are big parts of being narcs. They want to be the best, to be the most popular, most beautiful, most intelligent, most admired, the wealthiest, whatever idea comes to them. The competition is in their heads. They can win the competition, usually, especially if who they are in competition with doesn't know about this competition.

 

[Amish Heart]

ha Ha if she thinks she is winning a competition that I'm not even having with her. Alot of the time I find myself eye rolling and saying that I don't care. She is a dementia narc. We need a listing of one of those.
A youtuber I find myself listening to that is helpfull is Surviving Narcissism.

 

[goshengirl]

I think being competitive and jealous are big parts of being narcs. They want to be the best, to be the most popular, most beautiful, most intelligent, most admired, the wealthiest, whatever idea comes to them. The competition is in their heads. They can win the competition, usually, especially if who they are in competition with doesn't know about this competition.

My mom raised all us 5 kids to despise my dad. It's so insidious, going back as far as I remember. It was just something we "knew" - Dad was bad, Mom was the good parent. I remember being little and Mom would trash Dad, but do it in such a way that I felt like her confidant (pretty heady for a little kid), and I would feel closer to Mom. She reveled in the separation she created between us and our dad. I now realize she had to make him the bad one, so that she could come out on top and be the good and admired parent.

I've also noticed that Mom had a very different role in the lives of us girls compared to my brothers. It was competition. With dad she had to come out on top to be the best parent in the eyes of us kids. With us girls she had to put us down so she could come out on top in the eyes of the males in the family.

 

[Amish Heart]

I know about the putting down of the daughters. I could never understand competing with your own kids. My sisters, three of them were from mom's first marriage, and they had that a bit worse than I did. All the photos of her and my sisters in their teen years are mom in a bikini and a sis in one, too. She would say that she looked better. I came along later, and just wouldn't wear the bikini. We didn't have brothers, but she had many failed marriages and relationship, and doesn't speak very well about men at all.

 

[Weedygarden]

Everyone is not your friend! Some speak with forked tongues!

 

[Weedygarden]

I don't normally watch Dr. Phil, but in one of the narcissism groups, it was mentioned that he had done a series about narcissism. In years gone by, I had thought that there was a narcissistic family, imho, and he missed it. I decided to watch it, rather, listen to it. This is the first one, and time will tell how much of it I watch and how many of those in this series that I will watch. So far, its okay. First one is 53 minutes long.

 

[Weedygarden]

If you have been asked to be a flying monkey and to get information from someone so that it can be used against them, they are a manipulator and you are a backstabber.

 

[Weedygarden]

 

[Weedygarden]

This is also true for narcs we meet other places and their flying monkeys!

 

[Weedygarden]