We are here, it's happening now!

[Neb]

But the truth is, if you really want to help people in a bad situation, you just take the risk and become a target. I've been there, in the 3rd world. I knew what I was getting into and took my chances.


No, I don't look like this anymore so I'm not breaking opsec (much) here:



But yeah, in case you think I never put myself out there....here I am in a an utterly screwed up, compromised situation with no security, in the name of doing the 'right thing' in a third world hell hole.

Nothing bad happened to me. This time.

I like to think I'm older, wiser, more cynical now than I was then. Honestly at the time, I didn't even really care if I ever came home and was willing to just take whatever happened to me. Not that way anymore.

If one is doing God's will there is no need to fear.

Ben

 

[TENNGRIZZ]

I recognize the luke warm reference from The Revelations.

Aside from churches what other ways could one help the hungry without becoming a target?

Ben

I kinda look at us like the watchmen in Ezekiel , if they hear the warning and respond or react then they will be good to go if not then their blood is on their own heads. There's a big difference between helping / defending those who can not help or defend themselves and doing the same for those who won't. I know I sound harsh but fact's are cold and brutal. Maybe my profession and life experience has made me callous but that's the way I view the world today. Not through Rose colored glasses.

 

[Hardcalibres]

I recognize the luke warm reference from The Revelations.

Aside from churches what other ways could one help the hungry without becoming a target?

Ben

Like many things in a very severe crisis, security comes where there is low population density.

If you are some where with very few people and you identify someone (ie an individual up to a small family group) you assess you may want to provide a donation to, then you can observe those people covertly, identify where they routinely go or where they are headed (if traveling), and then place the donation either where they will find it or ahead of them on their path.

If you do that, you will only remain safe if:
1) They don't know the donation came from you
2) They don't see you place the donation
3) They don't know where you came from or are based
4) You don't do it repeatedly - in a way that shows your routine
5) (Even if) they develop the hope they will get more of your supplies, they have no idea who you are or where to look for you

Providing charity to people who are out trying to find somewhere safe is probably more moral (and safer for the recipient) than giving stuff to towns folk who may well just fight over the supplies you provide anyway.

 

[Spikedriver]

That it will!

Maybe visit the church looking like I am looking for help but doing the opposite....?

Ben

There's something to that idea. Working in California, I learned not to stop at a gas station after work. When you show up in dirty work clothes, it's like a beacon that says "I have a job so I'm getting a paycheck!" Everybody in town will try to panhandle off of you. So I'd go back to the hotel, wash my face and hands, and change into sweats. Hardly anybody bothered me then.

As far as security when moving goods to the charity, I'm guessing you'd want to move in threes. Two doing the load and unload, one pulling security. Reality is, it's not going to take long before people know where the food is and where it comes from...

 

[Neb]

Like many things in a very severe crisis, security comes where there is low population density.

If you are some where with very few people and you identify someone (ie an individual up to a small family group) you assess you may want to provide a donation to, then you can observe those people covertly, identify where they routinely go or where they are headed (if traveling), and then place the donation either where they will find it or ahead of them on their path.

If you do that, you will only remain safe if:
1) They don't know the donation came from you
2) They don't see you place the donation
3) They don't know where you came from or are based
4) You don't do it repeatedly - in a way that shows your routine
5) (Even if) they develop the hope they will get more of your supplies, they have no idea who you are or where to look for you

Providing charity to people who are out trying to find somewhere safe is probably more moral (and safer for the recipient) than giving stuff to towns folk who may well just fight over the supplies you provide anyway.

Good thoughts!

But...

It is only a matter of time before kids try to stay up and catch Santa

Ben

 

[Hardcalibres]

Good thoughts!

But...

It is only a matter of time before kids try to stay up and catch Santa

Ben

Agreed - if you engage in charity during a very severe crisis, there will always be residual risk that cannot be mitigated......and that is why charity doesn't figure in my plans for very severe crises.

As I stated four pages ago, my duty is 100% to those in my group and 0% to anyone outside that group. Their duty is the same. I won't be endangering my group by engaging in charity and neither will others in our group.

I was mostly just suggesting how you could do it......if you think you must......

Some people won't like this bit, but here goes anyway...........I assess that at least some people who engage in charity do so because it gives them a release of endorphins. For many of those, they need the recipient to know who the donation came from........and for those people, when doing charity during a very severe crisis, they may well do an intentionally poor job of hiding their identity. I pity the families of those people who will put them at much greater risk just to get that "high".

Charity for the wrong reasons is a thing.......

 

[Pearl]

I think you would have to have the soup lines moved every week or so or else people would hijack the supply truck.... Look what has happened to the food trucks in Africa, they get redirected by the local war lord or who ever is in control on that given day... food becomes control.

We are not the people our great grand parents were, they had respect for others and a high work ethic, today we have neither....

So true!!

 

[Neb]

Agreed - if you engage in charity during a very severe crisis, there will always be residual risk that cannot be mitigated......and that is why charity doesn't figure in my plans for very severe crises.

As I stated four pages ago, my duty is 100% to those in my group and 0% to anyone outside that group. Their duty is the same. I won't be endangering my group by engaging in charity and neither will others in our group.

I was mostly just suggesting how you could do it......if you think you must......

Some people won't like this bit, but here goes anyway...........I assess that at least some people who engage in charity do so because it gives them a release of endorphins. For many of those, they need the recipient to know who the donation came from........and for those people, when doing charity during a very severe crisis, they may well do an intentionally poor job of hiding their identity. I pity the families of those people who will put them at much greater risk just to get that "high".

Charity for the wrong reasons is a thing.......

Yup

Let not your right hand know what your left hand is doing.

Ben

 

[Haertig]

reference from The Revelations

No "s". Sorry, that catches my eye every time and has become a pet peeve. No "The" either.

 

[Neb]

No "s". Sorry, that catches my eye every time and has become a pet peeve. No "The" either.

Correct tou are!

Ben

 

[Aerindel]

I keep thinking of this scene:

 

[Dani]

I remember, when it was "NOT" going to last "very" long once the vaccine was developed.

You and me both Bud! And yet here we are. Sorry I "Laughed" , but it is really the propaganda Main Stream Media was trying to push. . . For how many months now?

 

[Supervisor42]

Agreed - if you engage in charity during a very severe crisis, there will always be residual risk that cannot be mitigated......and that is why charity doesn't figure in my plans for very severe crises.

As I stated four pages ago, my duty is 100% to those in my group and 0% to anyone outside that group. Their duty is the same. I won't be endangering my group by engaging in charity and neither will others in our group.

I was mostly just suggesting how you could do it......if you think you must......

Some people won't like this bit, but here goes anyway...........I assess that at least some people who engage in charity do so because it gives them a release of endorphins. For many of those, they need the recipient to know who the donation came from........and for those people, when doing charity during a very severe crisis, they may well do an intentionally poor job of hiding their identity. I pity the families of those people who will put them at much greater risk just to get that "high".

Charity for the wrong reasons is a thing.......

If you donate stuff to charity, don't stick around to see who gets it.
We dropped off a bunch of mint condition clothes at Goodwill and felt really good about helping the 'needy'.
I wandered around back and watched 2 people carrying arm loads out the back door and stuffing them into a Cadillac Escalade and a Lexus (either of which cost more than our house), for their next yardsale.
This will harden you a bit.

 

[Sourdough]

You and me both Bud! And yet here we are. Sorry I "Laughed" , but it is really the propaganda Main Stream Media was trying to push. . . For how many months now?

"Ample Scientific Data": Congresswoman Introduces 'Natural Immunity Is Real Act' | ZeroHedge

 

[Supervisor42]

"Ample Scientific Data": Congresswoman Introduces 'Natural Immunity Is Real Act' | ZeroHedge

ZH finally has something right.
I remember when we kids were passing around the measles.
Every one of us kids had it, but not a single adult.
Why? They done had it before when they were kids.
Natural immunity is real, I have watched it.

 

[poltiregist]

Charity doesn't factor into my survival plan when things get really bad . My group will be only concerning with our own survival . I am prepared to watch the unprepared starve to death . --- That being said as of this point the situation is not that bad . Only about 3 months ago a cattle ranch gave my group two bulls . One had broken its neck in a head catcher and the other broke a leg . We strung them up from a oak limb and butchered them . We filled up all our deepfreezes and then distributed the rest of the meat to various families living in the area . --- What I consider a break down of society likely isn't what some invison but is much worse . Running around giving away free food after all the stores , running water , and power grid electricity are no longer available makes me think the person doing so somehow believes things will soon get better and they can resupply . We are entering a Venezuela type of a starving society from which we will never climb back out of . This some just haven't comprehended yet .

 

[DrJenner]

I kinda look at us like the watchmen in Ezekiel , if they hear the warning and respond or react then they will be good to go if not then their blood is on their own heads. There's a big difference between helping / defending those who can not help or defend themselves and doing the same for those who won't. I know I sound harsh but fact's are cold and brutal. Maybe my profession and life experience has made me callous but that's the way I view the world today. Not through Rose colored glasses.

I'm with you here. I help people every day when I'm at work. That has to be enough, I need to take care of my family as well.
That being said, my brother has made fun of me at every turn about prepping and the like, even though he used to have a BOB, and was full on prepper mode a few years ago. He's got the wife, 2 kids and picket fence now, so I think he wants to hold on to that reality.
Not sure what I will do when he comes calling.

 

[Spikedriver]

ZH finally has something right.
I remember when we kids were passing around the measles.
Every one of us kids had it, but not a single adult.
Why? They done had it before when they were kids.
Natural immunity is real, I have watched it.

ZH just proved that a blind squirrel really does find a nut once in a while...

 

[Supervisor42]

.
That being said, my brother has made fun of me at every turn about prepping and the like, even though he used to have a BOB, and was full on prepper mode a few years ago. He's got the wife, 2 kids and picket fence now, so I think he wants to hold on to that reality.
Not sure what I will do when he comes calling.

You will welcome all 4 with open armsand ration your supplies.
Plan for it.
It's easy to say you would just kick them off of the front porch, until you are looking desperate people in the eye and you can see the panic.
Even a cold-hearted bastid like me couldn't say no when faced with that before.

 

[DrJenner]

You will welcome all 4 with open armsand ration your supplies.
Plan for it.
It's easy to say you would just kick them off of the front porch, until you are looking desperate people in the eye and you can see the panic.
Even a cold-hearted bastid like me couldn't say no when faced with that before.

Yeah. I love my nephews.
but I could really smack him upside the head

 

[Hardcalibres]

Charity doesn't factor into my survival plan when things get really bad . My group will be only concerning with our own survival . I am prepared to watch the unprepared starve to death . --- That being said as of this point the situation is not that bad . Only about 3 months ago a cattle ranch gave my group two bulls . One had broken its neck in a head catcher and the other broke a leg . We strung them up from a oak limb and butchered them . We filled up all our deepfreezes and then distributed the rest of the meat to various families living in the area . --- What I consider a break down of society likely isn't what some invison but is much worse . Running around giving away free food makes me think the person doing so somehow believes things will soon get better and they can resupply . We are entering a Venezuela type of a starving society from which we will never climb back out of . This some just haven't comprehended yet .

In the simplest terms, the idea that people will be able to engage in charity during a very severe crisis, suggests they don't get how severe a crisis can be or it shows that beyond a certain point of severity, they will engage in self denial rather than accept the crisis for what it is.

So that makes this notion of charity, regardless of obvious futility and risks, just another form/symptom of Normalcy Bias.

I have been and will continue to be charitable in mild crises. I prefer to make that charity anonymous - mostly because of the contempt I have for charity driven by selfish motivations, but also because it is good OPSEC to do so.

But I have a clear idea and boundaries for what sort of crises are severe enough to preclude charity.

In those crises, the positive effect of charity would be a drop in a very large bucket (or perhaps an ocean). It could be argued that donating anything short of enough food to starving people whose situation is only going to get worse, is indeed prolonging the process and agony of their starvation.

In a very severe crisis, you are not going to save anyone with charity.

You will be flatout just trying to save yourself and those you really are responsible for.

Think of it this way: A very well prepared person could donate their entire food stock to a modest sized town and it would feed the population for like..... a day.

What would be the point of that?

 

[Magus]

Feed a freeloader and he'll come back.
fire a few rounds in his general direction and he moves on.

 

[Neb]

In the simplest terms, the idea that people will be able to engage in charity during a very severe crisis, suggests they don't get how severe a crisis can be or it shows that beyond a certain point of severity, they will engage in self denial rather than accept the crisis for what it is.

So that makes this notion of charity, regardless of obvious futility and risks, just another form/symptom of Normalcy Bias.

I have been and will continue to be charitable in mild crises. I prefer to make that charity anonymous - mostly because of the contempt I have for charity driven by selfish motivations, but also because it is good OPSEC to do so.

But I have a clear idea and boundaries for what sort of crises are severe enough to preclude charity.

In those crises, the positive effect of charity would be a drop in a very large bucket (or perhaps an ocean). It could be argued that donating anything short of enough food to starving people whose situation is only going to get worse, is indeed prolonging the process and agony of their starvation.

In a very severe crisis, you are not going to save anyone with charity.

You will be flatout just trying to save yourself and those you really are responsible for.

Think of it this way: A very well prepared person could donate their entire food stock to a modest sized town and it would feed the population for like..... a day.

What would be the point of that?

Ha!

Ben

 

[Supervisor42]

Feed a freeloader and he'll come back.
fire a few rounds in his general direction and he moves on.

So, you would do that to your cousins or relatives? That's who we are talking about.

 

[TENNGRIZZ]

So, you would do that to your cousins or relatives? That's who we are talking about.

Some yes , I know it's harsh but kin or no kin , I have a few who are very untrustworthy now in semi-normal times. They are persona non grata now and will be after a big changing event as well.

 

[jazzy]

the preppers dilema


after the crash--do we help others and if so, who

if a christian, we follow Jesus--whatever you do for the least of these, you do it to me


the key is Discernment and we get that from God
when times get dicey, we got to ask God who do we help, who is an enemy, who is really in need, what do you want me to do

God is with us thru the Storm.

 

[Haertig]

when times get dicey, we got to ask God who do we help, who is an enemy, who is really in need, what do you want me to do

God has already answered that one. You help them all. You don't get to pick and choose or ask for further guidance.

If you are Christian, you can't pretend you don't know the answer. The real question is, will you do what you know you are supposed to do? That's the tough one, and where the non-perfect (all of us) may falter.

 

[Aerindel]

So, you would do that to your cousins or relatives? That's who we are talking about.

Some of my relatives are shoot on sight if the show up post SHTF.

 

[Hardcalibres]

God has already answered that one. You help them all. You don't get to pick and choose or ask for further guidance.

If you are Christian, you can't pretend you don't know the answer. The real question is, will you do what you know you are supposed to do? That's the tough one, and where the non-perfect (all of us) may falter.

It would seem that Noah didn't get that email.

 

[Haertig]

I have a few who are very untrustworthy now in semi-normal times. They are persona non grata now and will be after a big changing event as well.

Some of my relatives are shoot on sight if the show up post SHTF.

I am happy to say that any of my relatives are always welcome, even if they may not be a major contributor in a SHTF situation. Most all would indeed be major contributors however, especially in the security and protection department. I feel blessed to have a family situation like this. I realize that it is not universal.