We talk of post crash and off grid, but what of refrigeration?

[Cabin Fever]

What if you have to process the meat from a medium to large animal?

What if you are catching fish?

This is how our Inuit friends preserved caribou. They do the same with Arctic Char.

 

[Biggkidd]

A lot of talk of solar and batteries being used for for post-apolitical refrigeration. Even talk of using propane and fuel. My question is when society has collapsed and there is no supplier of parts or new batteries, let alone a way of getting them delivered to your homestead, how long do people expect to actually live this way with refrigeration? One year, 3 years, more?

My grandparents cooled food, and milk from their small dairy farm, all summer long with ice harvested from nearby lakes.

The LifePO4 cells I just got and need to get hooked up have an 8,000 cycle life. By my count that's better than 20 years at one a day!

 

[Cabin Fever]

The LifePO4 cells I just got and need to get hooked up have an 8,000 cycle life. By my count that's better than 20 years at one a day!

But aren't they being recharged constantly during the day time? Or, is the continuous solar charge considered one charge cycle?

Do they need to be heated during winter?

 

[Amish Heart]

I'd say it depends on where you live for what you can do. Ice blocks are not possible in the southern states. I don't think it's possible where I live, in the smack middle of the US, unless we happen to have a pretty harsh winter. I know in my grandpa's old barn down the road...in the mid 1920's, so 100 yrs ago, he had some concrete "waterways" in the milkhouse...the milkjugs would go in there after milking. The temp wasn't constant, but it was ok. This was grade B milk, not grade A where the temp is constant. Nowadays the big stainless steel milk tanks are kept to temp till the milk is picked up, by a small gas engine. I'm sure in Alaska, Minnesota, Canada...you could get blocks of ice. Here it's more of an underground thing. I can still freeze jugs of water on our porch in the winter here. The first year here, we didn't have a fridge, but I would put frozen jugs of water in ice chests. Everyone here has lots of icechests, I have three. Would like to get one of those fancy ones, though..things keep colder for a long time in those.

 

[Biggkidd]

But aren't they being recharged constantly during the day time? Or, is the continuous solar charge considered one charge cycle?

Do they need to be heated during winter?

Solar charging is considered once a day charging. But these claim they can cycle from 10% to 90% 8,000 times they will never see 10% or 90% because I'll run them pretty much between 30% and 80% and still have a lot more usable amp hours or watt hours than I've ever had. Not pulling them as far in either direction should extend their life span some too.

 

[Cabin Fever]

I hope your refrigeration lasts as long as your batteries.

 

[ClemKadiddlehopper]

Well it is good to see that this got derailed with consumables right off the get go. Where do we get propane 8 years in, My description was of a built in place Ice house, that doesn't require a lake nearby, and a crew to cut Ice blocks etc, History is really cool, but being able to just freeze a block in place without much effort except perhaps removing snow from the heat rejector .
Now stay on track kids.

If you live where you can cut ice blocks in the winter, you live where you don't need to. Just leave rubber containers of water out to freeze. Turn them over stomp on them and you have ice blocks for the ice house. Build the ice house correctly and you also have a walk in cooler. We just made do with a cut out in the creek bank during the summer.

 

[elkhound]

A lot of talk of solar and batteries being used for for post-apolitical refrigeration. Even talk of using propane and fuel. My question is when society has collapsed and there is no supplier of parts or new batteries, let alone a way of getting them delivered to your homestead, how long do people expect to actually live this way with refrigeration? One year, 3 years, more?

1500 Gallon buried tank last a long time...i could get 10 years out of it if had too. I know folks with multiple tanks.

 

[elkhound]

amish designed a freezer that has a dan foss compressor on it like used in marine application that lasts longest care free from all i read. everything is adjustable and its 12 volts. its even double insulated and double gaskets.

 

[Cabin Fever]

1500 Gallon buried tank last a long time...i could get 10 years out of it if had too. I know folks with multiple tanks.

I could never fill a single 1500 gallon tank with food. Our shallow ground water is at a temp of 45ºF year around, so a buried tank would definitely keep things cool.

 

[elkhound]

I could never fill a single 1500 gallon tank with food. Our shallow ground water is at a temp of 45ºF year around, so a buried tank would definitely keep things cool.

1500 gallon PROPANE TANK for holding fuel...they can be above or below ground. its for running items inside home..not filled with food...guess i need to be more exact next time.

edit to add..i went back and edited your quote in my previous post.

 

[dademoss]

I'm gonna put the stuff that needs freezing by Lori's feet

 

[Caribou]

A friend of mine had a floating logging camp. He bought two propane refrigerators. He broke the stop on the dial of one fridge and used it for a freezer.

Someone (Sourdough?), said that our situation would make the difference of which option we decided on for off grid refrigeration. All the different ideas listed here is the strength of our family.

Some suggest that we will wear out our refrigerators or run out of fuel. I’d truly be blessed if I lived that long.

 

[Biggkidd]

I hope your refrigeration lasts as long as your batteries.

Lets just say I have some used appliances laying around for use!

 

[Supervisor42]

A friend of mine had a floating logging camp. He bought two propane refrigerators. He broke the stop on the dial of one fridge and used it for a freezer.

Someone (Sourdough?), said that our situation would make the difference of which option we decided on for off grid refrigeration. All the different ideas listed here is the strength of our family.

Some suggest that we will wear out our refrigerators or run out of fuel. I’d truly be blessed if I lived that long.

I have always been fascinated with the propane-powered refrigerators in RV's, no electricity needed.
How do you use the heat from a propane flame to refrigerate stuff?
Interesting study into how they work.
I can't believe they didn't upscale them larger for people that live where there is no electric power.

In the 1930s, the first propane powered refrigerators hit the market, under the name SERVEL. Refrigeration was relatively new to the mass consumer market, and these refrigerators became popular in a time when many of the homes lacked electricity.

 

[Amish Heart]

Solar and propane are the things to use around here. My new stove is propane. No electricity to it at all. Solar and propane fridges and freezers are normal here. My sis in law from San Francisco was out here for the first time last August for our anniversary party. She about freaked out when she found out we had a propane stove. She kept saying gas, and I'd tell her propane with a 9 volt battery ignitor. She thinks electric everything is the way to go, even has an electric car at home.

 

[Frodo]

A lot of talk of solar and batteries being used for for post-apolitical refrigeration. Even talk of using propane and fuel. My question is when society has collapsed and there is no supplier of parts or new batteries, let alone a way of getting them delivered to your homestead, how long do people expect to actually live this way with refrigeration? One year, 3 years, more?

My grandparents cooled food, and milk from their small dairy farm, all summer long with ice harvested from nearby lakes.

What is ice on a lake?
My grand parents built a smoke house and laughed at ice
Smoke your meat, can your veggies
Dig a root cellar to keep things cool
Wind mill for a well

I really do not see another way being this far south

 

[Haertig]

Propane powered devices seem really good for living away from the crowds in a normally functioning society. You can heat, cool, power engines, cook and who knows what else with propane. But unfortunately, that will not be of too much use in a long term SHTF. People aren't going to harvest their own propane and compress it into their tanks. The thing about high technology solutions is that they require technology to continue working. You can store a decent supply of what you will need ahead of time - but you would have to acquire these stockpiles while technology is still working.

 

[Frodo]

Psssstttt

We can always pull a road warrior and steal a tanker full now to use later

Naaaa. Havasu would kick my butt

 

[Amish Heart]

I just try to have different things at different levels. So having a big propane tank is cool for us for our whole house generator, and to run the kitchen stove. And a wood burning stove is great for heating and ours can be used to cook on. But then I also have a solar oven, and a rocket stove that cooks with sticks. And a big burner that runs on propane, and a single burner that runs on a battery and inverter. And a fan that runs the same if the power is out and thus the AC out. And space heaters that are electric if there's that, but no firewood or propane. And an outdoor dutch oven set up with lots of briquets if I want to cook that way. Small fridges to run off inverters and batteries. And canning equipment if I want to can more and not refrigerate. I know I'm forgetting something. But if something can't be done with one type of power, it can be done with an alternative. Even if the alternative is deemed primitive. Winter is easy for ice if it gets below freezing. My favorite cousin is old order amish and runs one window ac unit in one room off solar in the summer. It works fine. All the grandkids come and take their naps in there when it tops 100 around here.

 

[Tirediron]

Psssstttt

We can always pull a road warrior and steal a tanker full now to use later

Naaaa. Havasu would kick my butt

Pay attention, the tanker was full of sand, the fuel was stored in the vehicles

 

[dademoss]

I got nothin for down south with Frodo and Super42, up here 4 foot underground will get you coolish.

 

[Haertig]

and a rocket stove that cooks with sticks

A while back I got all the parts to make one of there. The very basic DIY kind (made out of cinder blocks, wire mesh, pot supports). Do you have a commercial one? Or something you built yourself? How well does it work in practice? While I have the parts and knowledge of how to construct one out of cinder blocks, I have never actually tried cooking on it.

 

[dademoss]

I looked, cant find the link. You KNOW how, they do work. Mine is cinder blocks. some got smacked with a sledge to make em "right" cause well .....conform or die.



Had to make the weird one, they dont exist around here

 

[Mountain trapper]

A lot of talk of solar and batteries being used for for post-apolitical refrigeration. Even talk of using propane and fuel. My question is when society has collapsed and there is no supplier of parts or new batteries, let alone a way of getting them delivered to your homestead, how long do people expect to actually live this way with refrigeration? One year, 3 years, more?

My grandparents cooled food, and milk from their small dairy farm, all summer long with ice harvested from nearby lakes.

I've got at 3 least 3 years of propane and two years of diesel and gasoline. When that runs out I'll figure something else out.
My battery bank is new and my second solar array is new. Everything else is less than 10 years old.

 

[elkhound]

I have always been fascinated with the propane-powered refrigerators in RV's, no electricity needed.
How do you use the heat from a propane flame to refrigerate stuff?
Interesting study into how they work.
I can't believe they didn't upscale them larger for people that live where there is no electric power.

There were Servels that ran on kerosene too.First Servel i ever seen or heard of ran on kerosene.

If i had deep pockets i get the amish freezer....it actually made to be used as a refrigerator by moving the dial too.....but anyhow i would put salt water bottles in it to freeze and use those for my new 'icebox' for daily refrigeration use and just rotate the salt water bottles in and out of freezer to keep frozen.

If i get to build a new place its going to have a 3 way refrigerator in it.

 

[elkhound]

 

[elkhound]

oct-2015

 

[Cabin Fever]

There is little or no discussion of refrigeration, long term post collapse. other than the use of heat pump type refrigerators powered by electric or RV style ammonia absorption stuff. both work well but are not very user serviceable

Seems like most are relying on stored fossil fuels and modern technology (which is short term) for refrigeration. I would like to know what these people are planning to do after they run out of fuel, or a hail storm or a falling tree permanently knocks out their solar panels, or their batteries fail. In my mind, many are not answering your question.

 

[elkhound]

http://vintageservelrefrigerators.com/HowItWorks.html