We talk of post crash and off grid, but what of refrigeration?

[Haertig]

http://vintageservelrefrigerators.com/HowItWorks.html


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What happens when the tubing develops leaks and all the pressurized stuff inside escapes? And then, after you patch the leaks against high pressure contents (which you probably can't), you are unable to obtain the stuff that goes inside, let alone re-pressurize the system?

 

[Amish Heart]

I have the Ecozoom Rocket Stove. Works well. Another cooking method is similar to the old timey straw box method of cooking....get something good and hot, then it continues to cook in a straw lined and covered box. A lady in Utah was making a quilted version of this, and it works real well, so I ordered one. Just get your pot of food good and hot, then put it in there and it'll continue to cook.
Our local amish guy sells the propane and solar fridges and freezers, and installs solar panels for the battery charging stations, and sold us the gas oven that he installed a propane conversion to. There's enough of the population here that uses all that, so Marvin Miller is our go to guy. He did our solar panels/battery charging thing, too.

 

[Cabin Fever]

What happens when the tubing develops leaks and all the pressurized stuff inside escapes? And then, after you patch the leaks against high pressure contents (which you probably can't), you are unable to obtain the stuff that goes inside, let alone re-pressurize the system?

What happens when you run out of the gas, kerosene, or electricity?

 

[Cabin Fever]

I have the Ecozoom Rocket Stove. Works well. Another cooking method is similar to the old timey straw box method of cooking....get something good and hot, then it continues to cook in a straw lined and covered box. A lady in Utah was making a quilted version of this, and it works real well, so I ordered one. Just get your pot of food good and hot, then put it in there and it'll continue to cook.
Our local amish guy sells the propane and solar fridges and freezers, and installs solar panels for the battery charging stations, and sold us the gas oven that he installed a propane conversion to. There's enough of the population here that uses all that, so Marvin Miller is our go to guy. He did our solar panels/battery charging thing, too.

The Amish were you live are much more high tech than the Amish around here. Our Amish still use horse and buggies. In fact, the Amish and State are in a lawsuit because the Amish won't even build their wastewater systems according to MN code.

 

[Caribou]

Propane powered devices seem really good for living away from the crowds in a normally functioning society. You can heat, cool, power engines, cook and who knows what else with propane. But unfortunately, that will not be of too much use in a long term SHTF. People aren't going to harvest their own propane and compress it into their tanks. The thing about high technology solutions is that they require technology to continue working. You can store a decent supply of what you will need ahead of time - but you would have to acquire these stockpiles while technology is still working.

Speak for yourself. Ive had an offer for the oil rights for my property. Where there is oil there is gas.

 

[Amish Heart]

Ours are horse and buggy old order. But they are allowed to drive their tractors like cars, and have air filled tires, so that's kinda special. Sundays are horse and buggies only. And some are stricter than that...my cousin Harry Wayne is horse and buggy always, unless he is using the tractor to farm. There are some Beachy Amish here, too, and they are allowed to drive cars, but not very many of them here. For wastewater here, all the farms have ponds. So do we.

 

[Haertig]

Speak for yourself. Ive had an offer for the oil rights for my property. Where there is oil there is gas.

Yeah, I hold the mineral rights for a chunk of land in south Texas too (I sold the surface land, but not the mineral rights). I get solicitations to buy out my mineral rights several times a year. Well known oil under that property. But I'm under no illusion that I could drill for it myself. I will indeed hold on to these mineral rights however.

 

[kd4ulw]

Let’s not forget salt-curing meat without refrigeration.

 

[Amish Heart]

And just canning stuff. Or using crocks. I still have my grandma's pork crock she kept in the basement. Pork chunks, salt, and lard. Salting and hanging hams.

 

[Tirediron]

I spent a fair bit of time looking for the article on the freeze in place ice box. the box was in a basement room to take advantage of thermo syphon. the box had a well insulated outer, and a water tank that could with stand freezing. they ran a copper tube loop system inside the tank, and then ran insulated lines to the north facing side of the building where they built a heat rejector , the cold was transfered back to the ice block via antifreeze solution. the ice block would freeze to the coldest ambient temperature, once built it would be almost input free, other than closing valves when the weather warmed. a large enough tank should hold ice until fall.

 

[Haertig]

Let’s not forget salt-curing meat without refrigeration.

And just canning stuff. Or using crocks. I still have my grandma's pork crock she kept in the basement. Pork chunks, salt, and lard. Salting and hanging hams.

This sounds much more feasible to me than trying to maintain a high tech solution in the absence of high tech. But I'm not personally planning on either. Once my stockpile goes (which consists of already canned and already dried stuff), I'm out the door myself. I do not expect much success hunting feral pigs in the suburbs so I can salt and dry them next to the hot tub.

 

[elkhound]

What happens when the tubing develops leaks and all the pressurized stuff inside escapes? And then, after you patch the leaks against high pressure contents (which you probably can't), you are unable to obtain the stuff that goes inside, let alone re-pressurize the system?

i guess yall dont read that these systems run for decades care free.....!!

some of yall just keep on and on and on...even the most basic system of a springhouse or icehouse..i could ask what happens when you get to old to cut and haul ice.....some of yall..lets me spell it out...you ride that horse(system) till you cant ride no more or it breaks beyond being repaired!nothing is 100% care free or has zero break down points.

 

[elkhound]

And just canning stuff. Or using crocks. I still have my grandma's pork crock she kept in the basement. Pork chunks, salt, and lard. Salting and hanging hams.

dont forget corned beef and theres a wide range of other products too.

 

[Frodo]

https://www.homesteadingforum.org/threads/rocket-stove.9599/

https://www.homesteadingforum.org/threads/rocket-stove.9599/

https://www.homesteadingforum.org/threads/rocket-stove.9599/

https://www.homesteadingforum.org/threads/rocket-stove.9599/

 

[elkhound]

get yourself the old morton salt book

 

[Hardcalibres]

A lot of talk of solar and batteries being used for for post-apolitical refrigeration. Even talk of using propane and fuel. My question is when society has collapsed and there is no supplier of parts or new batteries, let alone a way of getting them delivered to your homestead, how long do people expect to actually live this way with refrigeration? One year, 3 years, more?

My grandparents cooled food, and milk from their small dairy farm, all summer long with ice harvested from nearby lakes.

15-20 years.........which in a post collapse world......is a long time. For many here in this thread, that is longer than their remaining life span (especially without modern health care) and in a very high risk environment.

A lot of the people who want to revert to primitive tech sooner rather than later, underestimate:

1. How much hard work that would be - and each of us will only have so many hours available for hard work each day....and in what remains of our life span
2. How much other stuff that is unavoidable you will also be required to do
3. The irreplaceable resources that will be needed for those primitive methods (for example salt needed for some methods of food processing/preservation)
4. How hard it is to keep good OPSEC while using primitive tech (smells, sounds, etc)
5. How much many primitive methods of food processing depend upon weather, temperature, climate and time of the year
6. The amount of time you will need to devote to guard duties, patrolling and security in general
7. How much their ideas are based upon philosophical rather than cold hard logical factors/mindset

I am no Luddite........the most well prepared survivalists are not.

In a PAW, a lot of Luddites will get shot by guys with modern weapons and good night vision.

........and there are also always some who are trying to bait the survivalists into admitting their preps won't last forever.......so they can say "See you are not really prepared are you?"

That is dumb......but Normalcy Bias does make people think dumb things and come up with dumb rationalizations about why preparedness "isn't worth it".

The debate between high tech and primitive survivalism is not new - it was even one of the themes in the movie "the Omega Man" made back in the 1970s.

 

[Caribou]

What happens when the tubing develops leaks and all the pressurized stuff inside escapes? And then, after you patch the leaks against high pressure contents (which you probably can't), you are unable to obtain the stuff that goes inside, let alone re-pressurize the system?

You pray to the ice goddess, dance in a circle three times, and burn one sock as a sacrifice. I always use the lonely sock who's mate was devoured by the dryer god.

 

[Haertig]

That is dumb......but Normalcy Bias does make people think dumb things and come up with dumb rationalizations about why preparedness "isn't worth it".

Nobody said preparedness isn't worth it.

I just questioned the dependency on modern technology in a world that no longer has modern technology. You don't consider that a reasonable question or discussion?

The debate between high tech and primitive survivalism is not new - it was even one of the themes in the movie "the Omega Man" made back in the 1970s.

That just goes to show that depending on high tech has been a questionable strategy for quite a while now.

Me, I am totally going the "high tech" route. I am dependent completely on food that has already been canned (by someone else), food that has already been dried and packaged appropriately (by someone else), in a shelter structure that has already been built (by someone else), water that has already been purified (by someone else), wearing clothing that has already been sewn (by someone else), using firearms that are already built (by someone else), yada, yada, yada. You get the picture.

My choice on how long to prep for (storing supplies) is based on how long I think I'd want to live a crappy existence, not how long I can possibly string out my survival in a crappy existence. Others think differently, and define "crappy existence" differently. Which is fine. To each his own. Some here raise their own livestock and plant their own fields of food. I think that's actually pretty great. But it is not part of my plan. You could donate a ranch with a bunch of cows on it to me, and I wouldn't know what to do with it. I assume you have to feed cows, but without a store in town that sells bags of cow food, I wouldn't even be able to do that. I could probably lead my cow into a slaughterhouse, but once there it would be more likely that the cow would slaughter me rather than the other way around. At least I know my limitations...

 

[Frodo]

What happens when the tubing develops leaks and all the pressurized stuff inside escapes? And then, after you patch the leaks against high pressure contents (which you probably can't), you are unable to obtain the stuff that goes inside, let alone re-pressurize the system?

What happens?
You tilt your head to the side, scratch your butt. Then head out to scavenage Freon from one of the millions of non running AC units that every house in the US has

 

[SLADE]

I would think if your fridge runs on fuel making a flame you could think of many home spun fuels that do the same.
No fossil fuel needed.

 

[Frodo]

I would think if your fridge runs on fuel making a flame you could think of many home spun fuels that do the same.
No fossil fuel needed.

Thats is true
Imo if you rely on commercial fuel you will be hungry and cold

 

[elkhound]

I would think if your fridge runs on fuel making a flame you could think of many home spun fuels that do the same.
No fossil fuel needed.

There was an article in the old countryside and small stock journal showed how a guy made his own 'digester' set up and used it in his kitchen stove just like lpg. It was captured in inner tubes if i remember correctly. Several places around the world you can get small set ups underground to do this and they use the manure from their few head of dairy cows they have.In fact theres set ups on large dairies here in u.s. producing methane from 100's of cows they milk and they burn it to produce electricity that they use and put back in the grid.The one in magazine had 4-5 drums.

 

[elkhound]

@SLADE

 

[Amish Heart]

I wonder if it stunk!

 

[Cabin Fever]

Well, there ya go! 50 minute worth of refrigeration in an RV style absorption refrigerator using extremely dirty biogas. The acids produced by burning the biogas will have that refrigeration system corroded in no time. I wonder how long it took to produce the 40 liters of biogas?

 

[Tirediron]

Like brands of vehicles everybody s ideas are their ideas and if there is an investment, that flow of thought will be followed.

 

[dademoss]

All I can do is dig a hole and hope Lori doesn;t push me in it

 

[SLADE]

@SLADE

Interesting but I was thinking alcohol or veggie oil.

 

[elkhound]

Interesting but I was thinking alcohol or veggie oil.

yes..all of these are possibilities..especially veggie oils..run a lister/hit and miss engine type engines that first powered many farms and homes way back in the day providing wide range of options to do things.

 

[elkhound]

the methane to me would be a step up by having a very controlled flame in the kitchen for cooking/canning and much more.