We talk of post crash and off grid, but what of refrigeration?

[Cabin Fever]

the methane to me would be a step up by having a very controlled flame in the kitchen for cooking/canning and much more.

Biogas is not the same as methane. Biogas contains methane, as well as, a lot of other gases that create acids when burned.

 

[elkhound]

Biogas is not the same as methane. Biogas contains methane, as well as, a lot of other gases that create acids when burned.

well you can tell that to the scientist in the video...not sure your problem is lately but you try to toss a wet blanket on every thread posted into a negative spin !!


i HAVE NO IDEA...AND 100% DONT GIVE A BLANK...LOOKING FOR IDEAS..its up to others to dive into details of what they want to try and need.

from video description.


how long a 40 liters volume of an inner tube of methane gas container can take to burn using a laboratory benzene burner, we did in our laboratory in Tamanrasset city . This biogas was produced via the anaerobic digestion of kitchen wastes and camel dung.Biogas has a very nice #blue flame our biomethane has no odor biogas production is carbon-neutral and does not add to greenhouse gas emissions In principal, biogas can be used like other fuel gas. When produced in household-level biogas reactors, it is most suitable for cooking or lightening Biogas is about 20% lighter than air GreenAl is a high efficiency biodigesters system made to help farmers with hard access to energy, to supply to electricy by converting organic wastes to gas fuel for water pumping and manner into biofertilizer for farming.Do not hesitate to check more about us in our website https://www.green-al.com/

i advise you to contact them to correct them !!!!!

 

[elkhound]

for those interested

 

[Tirediron]

If you have a septic tank you have a methane source, fairly easy to tap, and as to fouling a absorptive fridge burner, I doubt it , especially if it it bubbled through a water trap/ filter . and the burner is easy enough to clean, you could also runn it through a propane filter first.

 

[777funk]

Sans refrigeration = Salt Pork

One more way to preserve meat (pork).

 

[Cabin Fever]

@elkhound Having worked on a biogas research project using animal manure at the U of MN, as well as, working with many wastewater treatment facilities that produce biogas from anaerobic digestion of sewage sludge, I know a bit about biogas and the need to "scrub" the gas if it is going to be used as a fuel. Sure you can use it in a brunzen burner or primitive cast iron cooking burners without scrubbing. But, if you're going to store it in metal or transfer it in metal pipes or use it in engines, boilers, or furnaces, or anything that can corrode, you're going to have to scrub it.

Sorry to offend your delicate sensibilities.

 

[SLADE]

This.

 

[elkhound]

Some might ask why refrigeration...theres another reason at least short term-medium length term... i not seen mentioned...medicines refrigeration..especially insulin. If i had a loved one, especially a child like in the book "one second after" i would be all about keeping a 1500# propane tank filled at all times.Probably run out of medicines before...just an example.

3 way fridge electric,12volt and propane.

 

[Amish Heart]

Yep it's a concern for husband in our home. Insulin in the fridge.

 

[Aerindel]

Some might ask why refrigeration...theres another reason at least short term-medium length term... i not seen mentioned...medicines refrigeration..especially insulin. If i had a loved one, especially a child like in the book "one second after" i would be all about keeping a 1500# propane tank filled at all times.Probably run out of medicines before...just an example.

3 way fridge electric,12volt and propane.

Well, sure, may as well do everything.

With insulin I think just acquiring enough to last that long would be the biggest hurdle.

 

[montanabill]

If you really need refrigeration for insulin one way is to get a quality portable ice chest that will run off a simple solar system or a small generator. They really work and have a low draw.
Insulin is available from wal mart without perscription even if it is the old fashioned not so effective type. Most insulin will last a year if refrigerated and not frozen.
https://www.amazon.com/EUHOMY-Refri...fos.f5122f16-c3e8-4386-bf32-63e904010ad0&th=1

 

[Mountain trapper]

Seems like most are relying on stored fossil fuels and modern technology (which is short term) for refrigeration. I would like to know what these people are planning to do after they run out of fuel, or a hail storm or a falling tree permanently knocks out their solar panels, or their batteries fail. In my mind, many are not answering your question.

I may add another 500 gallon diesel tank. That would give us about 5 years run time for the backup generator. Although its not used for refrigeration, we have about 3 years supply of propane. After fuel becomes no longer available, and my solar system fails, I'll probably build an ice house and cut blocks of ice and haul them up with a team of horses. I would also cure more meat to go along with the ice house. Mankind survived for thousands of years without refrigeration, we'll figure it out. Most likely we'll all be dead long before we need to worry about anything.

 

[viking]

I hope your refrigeration lasts as long as your batteries.

We plan to use the foods stored in refrigeration as quickly as we can after the grid dies as we understand that batteries will not be available for very long, thankfully we have a gravity feed water system and plenty of water storage to take care of freeze dried and dehydrated food rehydration. Candles and kerosene will take care of any lighting needs, solar backup systems are good for the transition from grid to no electricity.

 

[Aerindel]

Candles and kerosene will take care of any lighting needs, solar backup systems are good for the transition from grid to no electricity.

If you have solar, why transition to no electricity? Solar has many problems....but lighting is so easy....no reason to not use it for that. That is primarily what my solar is for....won't ever run refrigeration at my scale....but I don't think I should ever have to worry about lighting.

 

[montanabill]

all this talk of no grid power anywhere....after the first year there is going to be a real surplus of items like car alternators to rewire for power generation and a whole lot of bbq tanks left over from the abandoned suburbs.....
It is going to be a whole different world if the power goes out for any length of time. So i plan on hunkering down here in frostbite montana and let the dust settle and see what and who is left.

 

[Hardcalibres]

all this talk of no grid power anywhere....after the first year there is going to be a real surplus of items like car alternators to rewire for power generation and a whole lot of bbq tanks left over from the abandoned suburbs.....
It is going to be a whole different world if the power goes out for any length of time. So i plan on hunkering down here in frostbite montana and let the dust settle and see what and who is left.

I assess that in a PAW, any suburban areas will most likely be no go areas for the rest of our lifetimes.

There will always be some people left there and after a while they would all be apex predators......and MOUT (Military Operations in Urban Terrain) is traditionally the most costly environment to conduct sweeps.......there are just way too many choke points, hiding spots, ambush sites, etc

Scavenging in such a place would probably not be worth the risk.....those remaining predators will have picked it pretty clean and/or gathered everything useful into a well defended pile.

As others have discussed, the gangs will also hang on in the built up areas for as long as they can.....even if that means raiding the surrounding areas and returning to urban bases.

 

[Aerindel]

MOUT (Military Operations in Urban Terrain) is traditionally the most costly environment to conduct sweeps.......there are just way too many choke points, hiding spots, ambush sites, etc

Just to play devils advocate....

I think you can guess where I'm going with this...

 

[Hardcalibres]

Just to play devils advocate....

I think you can guess where I'm going with this...

....yes I thought that too when I was typing......but hanging out in a suburban house that doesn't stop bullets won't work either. That is not an area defense and being too short handed to make ambush work, takes that off the menu.

As the suburbs go feral, there will be a lot of casualties on both sides.......and how many they might take with them, doesn't make a suburbanite any less dead.


......and a suburb full of normalcy biased retirees is a very different thing than a suburb with a scattering of apex predators (a year or two later).

 

[Haertig]

Normalcy biased retirees with be the first to go in their non-bulletproof suburban houses. Everybody else just make sure you don't pull a Burt Gummer and neglect to prep for the unexpected. There's always that one thing you didn't think about...

 

[montanabill]

I assess that in a PAW, any suburban areas will most likely be no go areas for the rest of our lifetimes.

There will always be some people left there and after a while they would all be apex predators......and MOUT (Military Operations in Urban Terrain) is traditionally the most costly environment to conduct sweeps.......there are just way too many choke points, hiding spots, ambush sites, etc

Scavenging in such a place would probably not be worth the risk.....those remaining predators will have picked it pretty clean and/or gathered everything useful into a well defended pile.

As others have discussed, the gangs will also hang on in the built up areas for as long as they can.....even if that means raiding the surrounding areas and returning to urban bases.

One winter with no woodstoves, no suppy of wood, no water and the initial round of smash and grab will leave some resources around my general area. Especially the large number of out of staters that have built mcmansions on their small acerages. minus 20 to minus 40 with the wind blowing has quite an effect on most people who arent already set up for it. they have a MOUT training course at the nearby military base and we have a high number of retired military or NG folks living in the area. Some that live here are not normalcy biased and they already are set up and have things like backhoes, cats and diesel tanks already in place.

 

[lonewolf]

I do not expect to fall across anything I havent already stored myself, this is a flawed concept.

 

[dademoss]

If you have a septic tank you have a methane source, fairly easy to tap, and as to fouling a absorptive fridge burner, I doubt it , especially if it it bubbled through a water trap/ filter . and the burner is easy enough to clean, you could also runn it through a propane filter first.

Well, I never thought of that . Thanks!!

 

[dademoss]

I do not expect to fall across anything I havent already stored myself, this is a flawed concept.

It must be nice to be omnipotent and to forsee all things.

 

[Hardcalibres]

It must be nice to be omnipotent and to forsee all things.

It is actually pretty common for new members of survivalism forums, to tell everyone they are going to get all they need post-SHTF by scavenging.

My problem with scavenging is:

1. How do you tell what is abandoned from what is owned by someone still alive?
2. What would you do to trespassers that were found poking around your place or carrying off your gear/supplies?
3. Won't other people with fewer preps than you be out there doing the same thing - what will those meetings look like?
4. You can't be in two places at once. While you are out scavenging, why would people not be scavenging from your homestead?

It is also common for people to post what they will buy in a last minute shopping trip when the crisis breaks.

Both are cop outs that newbys sometimes use to rationalize not getting prepared ahead of events.

The best saying I have heard to summarize that concept is:

"When did Noah build the Ark?

........before the rain....before the rain...."

When people post their aversion to a posted concept, often there is a background to their response.

 

[sonya123]

if you want refrigeration that uses very little energy , you can run it easy with a small solar system , you can use a chest freezer with a controller that regulates temperature. We have several of those
( a regular refrigerator uses a ton of power all at once )

 

[lonewolf]

It must be nice to be omnipotent and to forsee all things.

nope, its called living a simple post SHTF life which does not require a huge amount of stuff that many cannot and will not live without.
like electricity and freezers. I have come across so many "preppers" who dont want to give up their tech heavy life, they want to live post collapse the same way they did before, they will fail!
BTW I have lived without these things before so I know it can be done. and before anyone says it it isnt going back to the stone age, far from it.
I do not prepare for this or that event, I prepare for what comes after, namely societal collapse.
once the collapse comes we are all on our own, do not expect Custer and the 7th cavalry to come charging over the hill to your rescue, or your govt come to that, it isnt going to happen.

 

[Cabin Fever]

all this talk of no grid power anywhere....after the first year there is going to be a real surplus of items like car alternators to rewire for power generation and a whole lot of bbq tanks left over from the abandoned suburbs.....
It is going to be a whole different world if the power goes out for any length of time. So i plan on hunkering down here in frostbite montana and let the dust settle and see what and who is left.

Trying to understand, not criticize, but, you'll need gasoline for your car to run around trying to collect all those 20# propane tanks won't you? What should we use to power the vehicle alternators in a post apocalyptic scenario? We have hundreds, if not thousands, of vacation lake homes near us there's gotta be a lot of tanks out there. I just can't see me pulling a wagon to collect these.

 

[ClemKadiddlehopper]

I'll make like a mule and get it done one way or another.

Lonewolf has the way of it. The difference between want and need is critical. I want a lot of things, but I don't need them to live a good simple life.

I come from strong peasant stock and I don't break easy. If I break, than its game over for me just like it will be for anyone. I learned that back when I was a kid. I have no illusions about that.

If I could chose, I would want any catastrophic shtf to occur early to mid winter. I can hit the ground running come spring after a long wait and see.

 

[montanabill]

Trying to understand, not criticize, but, you'll need gasoline for your car to run around trying to collect all those 20# propane tanks won't you? What should we use to power the vehicle alternators in a post apocalyptic scenario? We have hundreds, if not thousands, of vacation lake homes near us there's gotta be a lot of tanks out there. I just can't see me pulling a wagon to collect these.

Thanks for the comment, I really enjoy and learn from disscussions as apposed to adversarial shouting matches (the kind our current news and politicals seem to revel in).
As with most things location matters.
My situation will be different as far as raw materials and upcyclable assets in my immediate area. I like it since I hope to not be existing by knawing on the cambian layer of the local trees.
I have set up simple camps in the woods in a dugout shelter and my main tecnology was a axe and a pot for cooking. I could show others how to do that in the summer but i would not be a good bet to survive the winter like that.
My hope is things shut down either suddenly or it gets bad enogh people move into the cities with the fema camps. I can get by for two winters where I am if the zombies dont get me or the remaining govt. doesnt roll over my place.
Right now I live in a fairly low populated area with two car wrecking yards, a smaller solar farm, the rocky mountains with streams that could be used for small scale hydro power, the upper missouri river with four dams all with small generating systems installed, rich alluvial dirt next to the streams and rivers that can and have been irrigated with gravity systems. The area has two rail lines one north south and one east west.
All this is in about a 30 mile radius which I can travel either by foot or with the multitude of horses that are already here or my favorite..... my pile of bicycles which can also be modified and used on the train track as a pedal powered speeder.
The 20# propane tanks are just an example of the many things our current society has laying around that can and will be used.

 

[Tirediron]

If a person is going to ride a bicycle, or other open device in a post shtf world , it best be equipped with a snarewire guard and cutter, seeing what you are doing when your head has been subtracted from your body is a bit sketchy