What would you do faced with 50% inflation?
- Thread starter Alaskajohn
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I am soooo stocked up. I should be good for a few years.
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I'm not a coffee drinker but how much does the average coffee drinker consume in a week? Like a pound of coffee a week? More? Less?
Do we have any cost accountants here? What percentage of the cost of a pound of coffee is fertilizer? What was the cost of fertilizer before these "soaring" prices, and what is it now? I only see percentages in the article; not dollars and sense.
Orville Redenbacher's Gourmet Popcorn, 45oz jar
Walmart:
$4.98 July 25, 2021
$6.14 Mar 24, 2022
Doesn't look like 8% inflation to me.
Walmart:
$4.98 July 25, 2021
$6.14 Mar 24, 2022
Doesn't look like 8% inflation to me.
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https://perfectdailygrind.com/2018/...costs-to-produce-coffee-across-latin-america/
This article is pre-COVID but looks like in Ecuador production cost for coffee was around $1.91 / lb; Nicaragua was $1.05.
I know that doesn't really answer the question, but maybe someone smarter than me can find additional information and figure out the math.
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Around 25% inflation.
That's what I'm noticing when I do the math that most things are averaged off as a 25% increase. Look at Dollar and a Quarter Tree. Everything went up by 25%!
I'm in so many homesteading and farming groups on Facebook, I can't even count them, but I've seen a number of topics by people who have put in their spring orders for fertilizer and seed.
Some people are actually on a waiting list. Everyone is seeing much higher prices than what they paid last year. Some products are only a little higher, but others are double or more the price than this time last year.
Some people quoted how much more they're paying this year than last, but I don't remember exact figures. I just remember it was jaw dropping. Some people posted photos of this year's and last year's receipts to show the difference.
If I see any more quotes, I'll take a note of them.
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You are on the right track. How much does that same pound of coffee cost today? What percentage of the $1.91 or the $1.05 can be attributed to fertilizer?
We make a pot each morning. Both Hubby and I drink it & 1.9 lbs. last us about 3 weeks.
Yet how many (meaning how few) people compost their scraps, lawn clipping, tree trimmings etc.?
Small farmers and homesteaders use their manure etc. The big farms with 10's of 1000's of acres that produce most of the food for the masses do not.
I place a lot of blame on the corporate giants who have been seducing farmers for decades into believing that chemical fertilizers are a must if you want good yields.
CAFOs are discarding millions of tons of manure, which was used to fertilize crops for thousands of years and is now considered a "waste" product (sorry!).
Even if someone gets smart and digs Grandpa's manure spreader out of the barn, the agricultural infrastructure is so screwed up, it would be a monumental task to divert all that manure to where it needs to be.
Sorry, we are not allowed to tap into the abundant resource in W.D.C.
This is the guvments new weight loss program.
You will lose weight, and you will like it.
Me> "But what if you are not fat to start off with?"
John with u.s. farm report recently done a report on manures. if we used every drop of manure produced it would only cover 5% of crop lands. also after much digging in the n-p-k values...pound per pound manures vs. commercial fertilizers...well to go head to head with basic 10-10-10 you need 3 pounds of manure to 1 pound triple 10. this is for basic some of these guys use much higher rates and more.its a complicated and deep subject and i spend several days diving into it after i seen johns numbers looking at all kinds of data thats been collected. bottom line an industrial food industry runs on industrial amounts of everything from acres,to seed,to fuel, etc. and on and on.
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I wonder how it compares with bird droppings?
Curious
I have wires over my main backyard raised beds where birds roost and fertilize the garden boxes. Their production has not diminished over the years without me amending the soil with mulch and and bone or blood meal.
Curious
Ben
The thing is our farmlands have been raped for many years. Over time, manure in addition to compost (how much food do we throw away each day as a nation?) It is not a quick fix but it is a long term sustainable one. The land like a drug addict requires increasing amounts of drugs/chemicals each year (not to burn the plants) but I hope you get where I'm going. Our waters are now unsafe to drink from all the leaching chemicals - more harm than good. Nature has a healthy complete method - synthetic chemicals are not a part of it.
First we have to stop killing the soil. Every time the soil is turned it is exposed to UV radiation and dried in the sun and air. All the bacteria in the soil is killed off and then we add chemicals made from crude oil to force plants to grow in spite of the lack of minerals in the ground. Those petrochemicals further burn the microbial life out of the soil. You don't need to add fertilizer to healthy soil or extra minerals either. No till and sustainable farming allows you to manage the soil without turning, drying, and burning it. Healthy soil will not need high impact fertilizers or near as much water. The bacteria fight harmful insects and continually replace minerals. It can take as long as three years to return old farmland to fertile soil but it is well worth the work. I suggest you look into how to do it and rid yourself of the cost of extra water and adding fertilizer every six months. Mixing compost and natural (cow, pig, rabbit and chicken feces) manure will eliminate the need to buy fertilizer. The compost is spread with an aerator drum and the soil is left intact. Growing heirloom crops allows you to save seed that can be planted from last years crop so you don't have to buy seed. Think about it - you can continue to farm even if the support structure is not there. Where will you get the minerals and fertilizer after TSHTF? It most likely won't be available.
i get what you are saying but the reality of situation is what it is..its not going to happen and cant..at least not and export and keep amount of people alive we have today.its a proven math problem. theres a reason..mostly we seen population explosion globally when commercial fertilizers were invented and started to be used.up till them population was pretty even for a long time. do your own research on that.myself have just had to face facts as i have research starvation the last many years. it takes industrial farming to feed industrial society on several levels. an agrarian society will not look like society today.
my notes from johns world
My johns world reference talking points...manures
what percentage of crops get manures on them over commercial fertilizer.he said he spent hours combing data for this and percentages for n-p-k.roughly all the manure we produce only covers about 5% of crop land,commercial fertilizer on rest.the kinds of fertilizer commercially vary as well..but best figures he could get was we use 22 million tons of commercial fertilizer a year.
he said he scoured hours of mind numbing manure date from lots of sources. he crunched numbers because of all variables to get averages.
poultry=3-3-2
swine=0.8-0.5-0.7
cow=3-2-1
he showed one chart that included rabbit and horse and none on it were close to number he average out from all data.rabbit was highest 2.4n and chicken was next at 1.1n
this was per pound too
hog manure liquid 50# of n per 1000gallons
bottom line...manures wont cover anything we really grow on industrial scale. if we stopped growing crops we would have even less manures since most is used for livestock feed in one form or another.
i agree with some of what you say..but disagree on some. one biggie is this..commercial fertilizer does not effected the soil life in my gardens. i am not an organic person nor am i industrial gardener either. i am something in between and it varies. when i had my work horse i had plenty to fill garden up with not so much anymore. i use very little bagged fert. the garden is filled with nightcrawlers..by the 1000's. i have talked and showed pictures of the holes and how they reproduce in that garden..its been used since mid 1970's. the crawlers put lots of castings in soil. fertilizer i do use has never had effect on them what so ever. one reason is this..taking your waste out of garden is bullcrap. you need to chop and drop and till it in garden to feed the worms.they need fresh stuff to eat. jeff lawton ,famous permaculturst does what he calls chop and drop. its basically same thing. if it didnt work my garden been toast decades ago.
seed saving..been saving seed for decades.i have posted stuff here about seed sovereignty and feed/food security.
I actually agree with you and have done some research though not as extensively in fertilizers. I don't see it changing either but it's not a long term solution. Regardless of what becomes, I don't think it's going to be a good situation.
heirloom are stabilized hybrids. many of todays famous heirlooms were hybrids. just to name a couple rutgers tomato made famous by campbells soup corp..mortgage lifter tomato was a 4 way cross then grew out till stabilized.
85 days. Solanum lycopersicum. Open Pollinated. The plant produces heavy yields of 1 to 2 lb pink beefsteak tomatoes. They are very sweet, meaty, juicy, and flavorful. It has a rich tomato flavor. Perfect for salads, slicing, and sandwiches. This variety was developed in the 1930s by Mr. Byles of Logan, WV to help pay off his home mortgage. He was able to pay off his $6,000 mortgage in 6 years by selling the plants for $1 each. He crossed a German Johnson, a Beefsteak, and an Italian & English variety to come up with this unique variety. An excellent choice for home gardens. A family heirloom variety from Logan, West Virginia, USA. United States Department of Agriculture, PI 647467. Disease Resistant: V, F, N. Indeterminate
famous copra onion people grow for storage onion is a f1 hybrid well theres a guy grew it out for 36 years and stabilized it into an onion called clear dawn.it stores just like its parent copra...so i am told. i will be growing out onion sets this summer for next years garden of dawn to find out how well it stores.
our population will be 1/3rd of what it is now....this covers fertilizer,trucking etc. all of it goes back to one thing...oil of some sort.
everyone should look at whats in the 3-5mile range of their home and tell me whats produced there to consume...and no stores full dont count...lol...i mean real honest to goodness being produced.
Exactly! Dandelions and plantain are blessings not weeds.
You and I aren't trying to feed the world - just ourselves with a bit extra for friends or barter. The reason commercial farms use so much fertilizer is that they don't add the greens and browns back into the soil. They sell everything they grow right down to the soil level. Then they plow it up which exposes the soil to drying and UV that kills the bacterial fauna leaving the soil worse off each year. They might as well be farming in sand. I know of a few sustainable farmers who don't use fertilizer at all. One uses the slope of the land to carry nutrients and water across his entire farm. He has an old tractor that he uses once in a while to do some sculpting of small areas to get the water to flow where it is needed but that is all. I want to grow my grains and feed stock so I will use equipment to plant and harvest as well as spread "enriched compost" where it is needed. I don't plan on buying fertilizers or chemicals to artificially fortify the soil.
I like the idea of chop and drop - I just call it composting.
I like the idea of chop and drop - I just call it composting.
note this is original Rutgers tomato.its a determinate.theres other Rutgers out there that are now indeterminate type.rutgers and rutgers improved are determinate but rutgers select is indeterminate.
73 days. Solanum lycopersicum. Open Pollinated. This early maturing plant produces high yields of 6 to 12 oz bright red tomatoes. They are sweet and flavorful. Perfect for salads, slicing, sandwiches, and canning. It is a cross between a J.T.D. (an old New Jersey variety from the Campbell Soup Company) and a Marglobe. Crack-Resistant. An excellent choice for home gardens, market growers, and open field production. An heirloom variety was developed in 1934 by the New Jersey Experimental Station, New Brunswick, New Jersey, USA. United States Department of Agriculture, PI 270209. Disease Resistant: V, F, A, St. Determinate.
they made a f1 hybrid tomato and then grew it out till stable.
73 days. Solanum lycopersicum. Open Pollinated. This early maturing plant produces high yields of 6 to 12 oz bright red tomatoes. They are sweet and flavorful. Perfect for salads, slicing, sandwiches, and canning. It is a cross between a J.T.D. (an old New Jersey variety from the Campbell Soup Company) and a Marglobe. Crack-Resistant. An excellent choice for home gardens, market growers, and open field production. An heirloom variety was developed in 1934 by the New Jersey Experimental Station, New Brunswick, New Jersey, USA. United States Department of Agriculture, PI 270209. Disease Resistant: V, F, A, St. Determinate.
they made a f1 hybrid tomato and then grew it out till stable.
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You and I aren't trying to feed the world - just ourselves with a bit extra for friends or barter. The reason commercial farms use so much fertilizer is that they don't add the greens and browns back into the soil. They sell everything they grow right down to the soil level. Then they plow it up which exposes the soil to drying and UV that kills the bacterial fauna leaving the soil worse off each year. They might as well be farming in sand. I know of a few sustainable farmers who don't use fertilizer at all. One uses the slope of the land to carry nutrients and water across his entire farm. He has an old tractor that he uses once in a while to do some sculpting of small areas to get the water to flow where it is needed but that is all. I want to grow my grains and feed stock so I will use equipment to plant and harvest as well as spread "enriched compost" where it is needed. I don't plan on buying fertilizers or chemicals to artificially fortify the soil.
I like the idea of chop and drop - I just call it composting.
yea but do you compost in a bin or leave it in place? i know people compost in bins and tumblers etc and then have to return it back to garden. extra work i dont want to do. some people keep worm bins and sift casting out to use in garden. my method puts casting all over garden right where needed. i am lazy gardener and getting older and more broken all the time.
i am trying a section again of chop and drop and not tilling it in..well let me tell you..right away i seen increase in mice in garden. i cant have that...time will tell. it needs to get down in soil so crawlers can get at it and bacteria's and such.bottom line many methods work from square foot gardening to back to eden to regular row crops. big city population centers..industrial ag feed the population for now.
show me calories..calories keep you alive...i have yet to get anyone to show me calories they can gather and keep going without agriculture of some sort.my sorta new saying no agriculture=no life !
i have talked about this here before. look up minnesota starvation experiment.they were trying to figure out how to feed europe postww2 with everything destroyed.its an eyeopener for sure.
https://www.homesteadingforum.org/threads/minnesota-starvation-experiment.7005/
I understand how a hybrid is grown and separated until it is no longer a hybrid. I just don't want to have to do that for my own garden and fields. I have been growing heirloom varieties for years and saving seeds is just part of the harvesting. When I move I will contact the local extension office and find out what they know, talk to other small farmers and any no till farmers to get the knowledge that I need to be as independent as possible. I will likely have to continue to buy salt, sugar and spices that I can't grow but I can store enough for decades.
when you move drive around and look for people with fantastic gardens. look for old broken down old timers. stop in and say hey to them old people with great gardens like to talk about them.often like to share seed as well.they have dirt under nails from experience often extension folks have never raised anything in their life. just a fact for many these days.
