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Sometimes the line between deterrence and provoking are blurred. The way I see it, Putin was hell bent on going into Ukraine and there wasn't going to be anything we could have done to stop him.
I say if Ukraine and Europe had kept to the Minsk 2 agreement the Russians would not have gone into Ukraine, but the Zelensky has not kept to the agreement for a single day and every day the Ukrainian army has again shelled its own civilians in eastern Ukraine.

In addition fits the German former Chancellor Angela Merkel two weeks ago publicly made the statement that the Minsk 2 agreement that Europe has officially negotiated with Russia was a farce, the agreement was only there to give Ukraine time to better arm itself against Russia can.

Great thing about all this and it shows how wrong Europe and NATO are, I don't know how you in the US are informed about such things.
The Nordstream 1 and 2 was not blown up by Russia is now also a fact, Europe knows who did it but Europe does not announce it because it was 100% a NATO country, most certainly a European country with Joe's blessing.
I wouldn't dream of what would happen if an important pipeline or conduit leading to the USA was blown up by a NATO country, I think the American people and your government would provide a tough answer.

Russia will have its faults as I said, but it is very dangerous to blame only Russia for everything, our governments are absolutely no better and are currently doing everything they can to destroy our prosperity and our jobs.
 
I say if Ukraine and Europe had kept to the Minsk 2 agreement the Russians would not have gone into Ukraine, but the Zelensky has not kept to the agreement for a single day and every day the Ukrainian army has again shelled its own civilians in eastern Ukraine.

In addition fits the German former Chancellor Angela Merkel two weeks ago publicly made the statement that the Minsk 2 agreement that Europe has officially negotiated with Russia was a farce, the agreement was only there to give Ukraine time to better arm itself against Russia can.

Great thing about all this and it shows how wrong Europe and NATO are, I don't know how you in the US are informed about such things.
The Nordstream 1 and 2 was not blown up by Russia is now also a fact, Europe knows who did it but Europe does not announce it because it was 100% a NATO country, most certainly a European country with Joe's blessing.
I wouldn't dream of what would happen if an important pipeline or conduit leading to the USA was blown up by a NATO country, I think the American people and your government would provide a tough answer.

Russia will have its faults as I said, but it is very dangerous to blame only Russia for everything, our governments are absolutely no better and are currently doing everything they can to destroy our prosperity and our jobs.

We didn't have a pipeline blown up, we had one hacked in 2020...Russian hackers. It cut off delivery of fuel to the East coast for over a week. And yes, I know this for a fact because my son was working on such things in Cyber defense for the government; so not some media source.

Russia has done its own provoking. It gets as good as it gives.
 
I never said the US actively did it, but Joe gave the order to a European country, it was 100% an EU country, so Europe doesn't say who it was.

And? Russia has played games with our fuel sources, so why not play games with theirs?

It is never as simple as one country doing all of the prodding. It is like two of your children getting into a fight. One second there is yelling and by the time you get there, they are rolling around on the floor pulling each other's hair and biting. Then you hear about who started it....all the way back to last year when child one said....

You want to say that the west has been annoying Russia for the last decade or longer...perhaps after Russia marched into Crimea and took it without legitimate negotiation?

Yes we do things to make life difficult for those in the international community who do not seem to have any scruples. It is what is called deterrance. You make their lives uncomfortable so maybe they think twice and change their behavior. Putin? He just masses troops and starts lobbing missiles.

Because someone calls your momma a wh*re, you don't have the right to pull out a gun and shoot them. At least not in a reasonably civilized society. Do that, and there are consequences, for you, not the person who was running their mouth.

For the record, I am not a fan of politicians in general. Not Putin. Not Zelenski. Not Biden. Not Merkle....
 
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It had happened before the Russians took Crimea, and Europe was not innocent.
This conflict was partly provoked, not only by Russia, as you once said, there are always two parties to the conflict, it all started with the Maidan protests.

Where are we now? The sanctions don't hurt Russia that much, Russia has lost but the West has ensured that Russia is now developing its own technology again and has pushed Russia into the arms of China, India and Iran, Europe and the USA will see some problems from this, Above all, we feel it ourselves because we can hardly pay for the energy.
Furthermore, we now have the fact that the situation is more dangerous than during the cold war, Ivan has put his nuclear forces at maximum operational capacity and his defense industry has been running 24 hours a day, 7 days a week for the past 4 weeks.
Putin wanted to open up to Europe and a rapprochement in certain things, that's over now forever, and we will feel it.
The problem is still nobody wants a round table with everyone involved and if it goes on like this it will break our necks.
As long as the West doesn't bring these two brawlers to the table and BOTH (including Selensky) don't compromise, there will be a bang, the main problem is, the West still thinks it can destroy Russia, Adolf Hitler already had his experiences with it made the gmeacht but apparently that's forgotten.

Ivan is currently relocating a lot of long-range bombers, putting new submarines into service and replacing his nuclear missiles with modern ones, it's 12 o'clock and it could get out of hand very quickly with the smallest incident, and to be honest I don't want to see a nuclear result .
Russia is partly to blame, I don't deny that, but the situation is extremely dangerous and I don't know if many people are realizing that.
 
Those that defend there own corrupt government should not resist when they take away your rights or cone to take you away.

Less about defending our corrupt government (there has never existed a government that was not corrupt in some form or fashion. Better than today but, never corruption free, which is why our founders felt the need for checks and balances and enumerating a bill of rights)

...and more about pointing out that unless global anarchy is what you would like, where anyone can take whatever land they would like at any time without consequence (which I might add would legally trickle down to the government being able to forcibly take the land of any private citizen because they pissed the government off), for whatever reason, some kind of "provocation" or deterrence must be had.

I see a lot of complaints about how this has been handled and no viable suggestions of an alternative that would have produced a better outcome. Nor, do I see any suggestions of how to resolve this without a further escalation or giving into Russia's temper tantrum.

So, from that legal consequential viewpoint, I would say, supporting Russia's actions in this, giving it what it seeks (as we did with Crimea) is actually, in the long term, supporting the governments right to take your property from you because you did or said something that pissed them off....legal precedence. It trickles up from the local level and down from the international level. It is how the progressive movement works...one step at a time where you don't see the eventual consequence coming.

Partisanship, anger or hate for the "other side" has a way of skewing logic.
 
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I say if Ukraine and Europe had kept to the Minsk 2 agreement the Russians would not have gone into Ukraine, but the Zelensky has not kept to the agreement for a single day and every day the Ukrainian army has again shelled its own civilians in eastern Ukraine.

BINGO!!!

Would we have allowed Russia to build bioweapon labs all along our borders?
 
--- Another warning , This time from " Canadian Prepper " . I would hate to be one of those fake preppers this morning . Real prepping or bull sh--ing , I can understand why some continue to deny , where the world sits in regard to a Nuclear World War 3 .
 
While Putin is mounting new nuclear weapons in silos and submarines, Selensky is begging in the USA and Joe will again give him various weapon systems and money for even more weapons at the expense of the US taxpayer. (Has anyone read that Selensky pays for it?)

Selensky will seize the opportunity and bring Pelosi and Kamala to his bed so that he can bind the USA even closer to himself. He has probably already done that himself with the German Foreign Minister Anallena, she is busy traveling to Kyiv.

Let's put it this way, we have a big problem brewing and if it escalates then you in the US have a good 15 minutes longer than we do here. I hope that it never comes to that and if it does, that you can use these 15 minutes better than I can.
 
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--- Another warning , This time from " Canadian Prepper " . I would hate to be one of those fake preppers this morning . Real prepping or bull sh--ing , I can understand why some continue to deny , where the world sits in regard to a Nuclear World War 3 .


He brought up some good points; one of which. I have noticed this throughout the media on this conflict. The translations from Russian to English, ignore connotation. Words have definitions but also feeling and a meaning conveyed. Synonyms are not necessarily interchangeable and depending upon which one you select, you can change the "mood" and even the implied meaning of the message. The result, is what you are hearing from the media in translation, is NOT accurate.

I think they just run it through Google translate or something.
 
Less about defending our corrupt government (there has never existed a government that was not corrupt in some form or fashion. Better than today but, never corruption free, which is why our founders felt the need for checks and balances and enumerating a bill of rights)

...and more about pointing out that unless global anarchy is what you would like, where anyone can take whatever land they would like at any time without consequence (which I might add would legally trickle down to the government being able to forcibly take the land of any private citizen because they pissed the government off), for whatever reason, some kind of "provocation" or deterrence must be had.

I see a lot of complaints about how this has been handled and no viable suggestions of an alternative that would have produced a better outcome. Nor, do I see any suggestions of how to resolve this without a further escalation or giving into Russia's temper tantrum.

So, from that legal consequential viewpoint, I would say, supporting Russia's actions in this, giving it what it seeks (as we did with Crimea) is actually, in the long term, supporting the governments right to take your property from you because you did or said something that pissed them off....legal precedence. It trickles up from the local level and down from the international level. It is how the progressive movement works...one step at a time where you don't see the eventual consequence coming.

Partisanship, anger or hate for the "other side" has a way of skewing logic.

So many flaws in your quoted reply of my statement it's illogical. Probably because of your assumptions.
 
Your truths and my truths are to different. I believe your intentions are good. I wish you the best.

LOL. Well, thank you for that, I wish you the best as well.
 
Something for all to be aware of; December 25th is not Christmas in Russia. Orthodox Christmas is January 7th. Stay alert.
 
Something for all to be aware of; December 25th is not Christmas in Russia. Orthodox Christmas is January 7th. Stay alert.
I have been thinking of this the past few days. An attack on Christmas day would both minimize civilian casualties (if their strikes are on government and military bases first) and also catch us unprepared.

Anyway- as far as the disagreement about who's responsible the most, it's kind of a pointless argument. We will all have to agree to disagree because first, we citizens really can't do much about it wither way, and second, once the bombs start dropping none of it will matter.

I may as well save my typing fingers and simply get my family ready! I think we're all in agreement on two things- this world is crazy and we're all hoping those of us with some common sense survive.
 
I have been thinking of this the past few days. An attack on Christmas day would both minimize civilian casualties (if their strikes are on government and military bases first) and also catch us unprepared.
Yes. Think of all of the people who will not be at home, perhaps all the way across the country visiting on Christmas day. Not just nuclear. Shutting down the air traffic would be enough to cause chaos and economic damage. Unprepared and off guard.

There have been several people in different militaries who have warned this will not be a conventional hot war. It will be a modern war, fought with key strokes on a computer and against modern civilian conveniences/infrastructure. I tend to agree with them.
 
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Anyway- as far as the disagreement about who's responsible the most, it's kind of a pointless argument. We will all have to agree to disagree because first, we citizens really can't do much about it wither way, and second, once the bombs start dropping none of it will matter.
--- My sentiments exactly . As preppers all we can do is prepare . Maybe we will survive and maybe we won't , but the chances of survival are much greater for those with the foresight to prepare .
 
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Those are not my horses...posting pictures after my husband ran over both my laptop computer and phone has become a real PITA; so those were the most expedient. I do have 7 horses and they are different breeds.

Two are good size for plowing and I use them to haul logs sometimes. The rest have different specialties (as do the two that can pull). Roping, cutting cattle, extreme mountain trails (a little like English cross country with Australian style bush riding thrown in), packing, western dressage...they overlap skill sets and I trained all of them. Six of them are over 15 hands and go shoeless even on rocky ground. We trim our own feet.

It isn't the activity of the horse that necessarily dictates life span. It is the size. As with dogs, the large ones have a shorter lifespan than the smaller ones. My oldest quarter horse lived to 35 and was still trotting around the day before he died.

Between the two BOL's I have about 100 acres. 84 at one and 12 at the other with a third lake house property at 1 acre. The 84 acres is very soft sandy loam in most spots and easily dug through. Neighbors have the breeding stallions, mine are all either mares or cut.

Sounds like your big guy may have had EPM, caused by a virus carried by opossums.
Sorry to hear about phone and laptop! Yes, something we will well do without after the 'event' (whatever that may be) but beforehand and trying to keep in touch - Gosh! that sounds like an expensive replacement. Hopefully Father Christmas will be kind to you this year lol.
I love hearing about your 4-legged family and yes, you absolutely got all this covered and nailed down, friend.

We don't have Opossums in the UK - my ancestors probably ate them all if they even lived here in the first place lol. Shame really as look to be a reasonable sized meal. I'd give one a go. No the Clyde was in his twenties and his hip was totally gone. He only did plough competitions with his big partner and did not have to plough all day like his ancestors would have to have done before tractors came along. I agree 100% big creatures don't live as long as mid-sized creatures, but hours of gruelling work can take a toll too.

Merry Christmas to you and the ones you love, and maybe give the four-legged friends a carrot on behalf of me from the UK.
 
I have been thinking of this the past few days. An attack on Christmas day would both minimize civilian casualties (if their strikes are on government and military bases first) and also catch us unprepared.

Anyway- as far as the disagreement about who's responsible the most, it's kind of a pointless argument. We will all have to agree to disagree because first, we citizens really can't do much about it wither way, and second, once the bombs start dropping none of it will matter.

I may as well save my typing fingers and simply get my family ready! I think we're all in agreement on two things- this world is crazy and we're all hoping those of us with some common sense survive.
I had a dream a couple of years ago and in it people had Christmas trees up but no twinkle lights on and they were sitting in front of a black TV screen, shaking their head in disbelief. The dream cut (as they randomly do) to my country buried under a couple of feet of snow and no lights on. It might not ne this year but the way things are going and with no one trying for peace ...
 

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