Today, Saturday I just bought a couple grand worth of Silver

[Meerkat]

Right now?

I'm stacking cash right now, not metals. I'm aggressively saving dollars.

The time to buy metals was during the the past 2-4 years.

I suppose if I had $100,000, and I had no metals, I might put $5000 into tenth ounce gold coins and some silver coins (bullion coins, not collectibles). But, I wouldn't do it as an investment, that is for sure. I would do it for a hedge / insurance. When the $95,000 in dollars becomes worth $20,000, the $5000 in gold will be worth $25,000 or more.

But, if I only had $5000, I would keep the $5000 in dollar form...and I might keep it at home instead of in a bank. I'd probably spend $100 on fire safe, put the money in it, and hide the safe. Then, if the stuff really starts to hit the fan economically, I'd use that cash to buy things I will need over the next year or so.

They are doing away with cash soon,maybe sooner than we think.
Once they do that metals will be against the law so I'm putting my stock in being invisable and sustainable living a possible while doing so.
Of course I failed on both the above,lol.

 

[Tacitus]

I have a coworker who is an extreme prepper and said you can't eat gold or silver (he is big into gardening) but then said lead will be worth way more in the time soon after SHTF would happen.

Or are y'all referring to a time before its SHTF or a longer time after the initial incident would happen?

I agree the dollar is going down hill especially with this incentive check of $600 from broke Uncle Sam.

There are differing levels of probability for each type of SHTF event.

The likelihood that a Mad Max / The Road / Walking Dead apocalypse occurs, such that the entire society is reduced to a Dark Ages, subsistence living, hunter-gather society existence...I think that likelihood is low.

I think there are many more likely SHTF events that are much more likely.

One of those events is a simple (but catastrophic) economic collapse, where people lose confidence in the banks first, and then the paper that the banks hand out. People (and the authorities) will naturally look for other types of currency at that point. The authorities will try to reset the paper currency...they may succeed, or they may fail. If they succeed, then they will likely enforce an arbitrary exchange rate between the old currency and the new...but they might not be able to enforce that exchange rate on the market, and gold and silver might be very useful at that point in time.

I just don't think it is all or nothing: either the dollar is strong, or I'm only eating what I can grow on my property. I also think that not only is there a continuum of probabilities for me, between winning the lottery, and living alone in a zombie apocalypse, but that continuum of probabilities is actually a bell curve, with the probabilities at the extremes being very low, and the probabilities in the middle being very high.

Do I prepare for my ultimate disaster (an EMP)? Yes...even if the probability is low, the harm is great, so I prepare. Do I prepare for many SHTF events that fall far short of the worst case? Definitely yes, because I think those events are more likely, even if their harm is less.

My prepping is done on a risk based analysis, not harm based: Risk = Probability X Harm.
Low probability but very high harm can mean a risk that needs to be prepared for.
Low harm, but very high probability can mean a risk that needs to be prepared for.
If harm or probability approach zero (harm is mere inconvenience or almost impossible probability), then the risk is near zero and need not be prepared for...unless the complementary probability or harm approach infinity (certainty or occurring, or certain death of family if it occurs). The math is actually simple. The trick is to consciously and intelligently assign reasonably correct values to the two variables.

 

[Tacitus]

They are doing away with cash soon,maybe sooner than we think.

I used to worry about this, but now I assign it a lesser probability than I once did (or, at least, I think it is more likely to happen in the distant future rather than the near future). I definitely could be wrong, though!

They may try. But, I think that will definitely hurt the poor. They are succeeding in limiting large cash transactions, though:

• If you have a lot of money in your car for a legitimate reason in the US, they can just take it from you under the asset forfeiture laws...not trial required, just an arbitrary taking.
• If you withdraw a lot of money from the bank at once, you will be investigated.

But, I don't think cash will be done away with before I can spend what I am saving, so that risk is minimal for me personally, I think.

 

[Meerkat]

I used to worry about this, but now I assign it a lesser probability than I once did (or, at least, I think it is more likely to happen in the distant future rather than the near future). I definitely could be wrong, though!

They may try. But, I think that will definitely hurt the poor. They are succeeding in limiting large cash transactions.

• If you have a lot of money in your car for a legitimate reason in the US, they can just take it from you under the asset forfeiture laws...not trial required, just an arbitrary taking.
• If you withdraw a lot of money from the bank at once, you will be investigated.

But, I don't think cash will be done away with before I can spend what I am saving, so that risk is minimal for me personally, I think.

Asset forefrture is an illegal law and Trump just gave it even more teeth along with his other illegal 1ST. Amemmenment law he passed ' Anti Semtic which can get you put away just for reading the New Testament. I gave up on leaders going on 2 decades ago,but glad many still have faith.
I don't reconize this nation anymore.

 

[Tacitus]

Asset forefrture is an illegal law

Agreed.

Trump just gave it even more teeth along with his other illegal 1ST. Amemmenment law he passed ' Anti Semtic which can get you put away just for reading the New Testament.

I have never heard of this. Sounds like it might not be real news, as it could never be illegal to read the New Testament.

I gave up on leaders going on 2 decades ago,but glad many still have faith.
I don't reconize this nation anymore.

I agree with that!

 

[Supervisor42]

But, I don't think cash will be done away with before I can spend what I am saving, so that risk is minimal for me personally, I think.

I should probably shed some light about why I am not on the PM bandwagon in a big way.
We have practiced the "everything is destroyed" scenario before, numerous times.
Electronic transfer ruled. Nobody took cash. Or PM. Both useless.
They set up mobile cell-towers within 2 days and anybody with an iPhone and that little white do-hickey would be happy to swipe your CC or debit card .
All the silver and gold in the world - useless.
And when it comes to parking my money, I will confess I am greedy.
I want my damn dividends! Every 3 months!
6% - 8%.
You want your money to keep up with inflation? PM will do that.
Nothing more.
But when SHTF, a CC with a fat limit will be your best friend.

 

[Tacitus]

But when SHTF, a CC with a fat limit will be your best friend.

As long as the networks are still up!

If SHTF happens, I would definitely use the credit card until it didn't work anymore. Then, I'd want cash until it didn't work anymore. Then, I'd want gold or silver until it didn't work anymore. Then, I'd want other stuff I'm collecting.

 

[Meerkat]

Agreed.
I have never heard of this. Sounds like it might not be real news, as it could never be illegal to read the New Testament.

I agree with that!

Not yet but according to some it can be realize if they choose to do so.

https://www.veteranstoday.com/2019/...-semitism-law-will-make-christianity-illegal/

An Iron Curtain around Free Speech in the United States is being constructed piecemeal as States legislate unconstitutional laws claiming to target “Anti-Semitism.” These “laws” define criticism of Israel, Zionism, Jewish influence in America, Jewish domination of the media and other industry, Jewish dual loyalty questions, Judaism, the Talmud and other points of public discussion about Jewry, (formerly known as the Jewish Question) or the political agenda of Zionism as a crime, punishable under current racial discrimination law and/or newly created Hate Crime color of law.

Could America bec

 

[phideaux]

I got a million bullets....see..

Jim

 

[Supervisor42]

As long as the networks are still up!

If SHTF happens, I would definitely use the credit card until it didn't work anymore.

We've done that.
Buildings flattened to the ground as far as the eye can see in every direction.
Every power pole knocked to the ground.
Walk thru the rubble.
Electronic transfers up and running in 2 days, weeks before any electric power was restored.
(We are all running our generators, so no big deal)

We practice this so ya'll don't have to.

 

[Meerkat]

As long as the networks are still up!

If SHTF happens, I would definitely use the credit card until it didn't work anymore. Then, I'd want cash until it didn't work anymore. Then, I'd want gold or silver until it didn't work anymore. Then, I'd want other stuff I'm collecting.

A good hacker or power grid failure could stop all CC transactions.

 

[bkt]

If your storing condoms, tampons ,and fish hooks ...be very careful.

Jim

As a general rule, I don't store them together in the same container. But good, wise words, Jim.

 

[Supervisor42]

A good hacker or power grid failure could stop all CC transactions.

No, it cannot.
That's the whole idea behind a "web".
No matter which lines you cut, there is always a path from "point A"to "point B".
Civilization down here when we play 'SHTF':

 

[bkt]

No, it cannot.
That's the whole idea behind a "web".
No matter which lines you cut, there is always a path from "point A"to "point B".
Civilization down here when we play 'SHTF':

Well, that was the premise behind DARPAnet back in the day. But they got lazy in later years. An unintentionally-clever backhoe operator can take down vast regions. But planned attacks of power and internet backbone segments could really screw things up for a whole lot of people for some time. That's not hacking, per se, but it accomplishes the objective of knocking out communications. Combine that with DOS attacks on credit card processing systems, and commerce stops.

Roofing companies and general contractors must thrive down your way.

 

[SheepDog]

If the grid goes down there will be no internet to use. The net was begun by college based research scientists to share information faster and safer. If DARPA was involved they never took any credit for it. I was on the net in the late 70s (back before there was any graphics) and visited more than a few sites around the world. When I used a "war dialer" I got into a lot of places that I didn't belong. The only one that scared me was Boeing CO. advanced aerospace. My brother worked in the computer system and I didn't want to get him in trouble. He kept telling me it was impossible to hack. I never told him what I did.

 

[Supervisor42]

Well, that was the premise behind DARPAnet back in the day. But they got lazy in later years. An unintentionally-clever backhoe operator can take down vast regions.

Have you ever tried to cut the wire to a WiFi device?
If communications go up in the sky to a sattelite, a backhoe won't work.

But planned attacks of power and internet backbone segments could really screw things up for a whole lot of people for some time. That's not hacking, per se, but it accomplishes the objective of knocking out communications. Combine that with DOS attacks on credit card processing systems, and commerce stops.

That has been tried in the past with limited, short-term success. At best, they were an 'inconvience'.
Weaknesses were exposed and fixed. I haven't heard of any in the past 5 years that have been effective at blocking anything but a few stupid companies that were still running Windoz 2000 on their servers.
@SheepDog , Amazingly, a lot has changed since the 80's.

Now back on topic, buy silver or gold?

 

[SheepDog]

Buy half and half. The gold takes up less space but the silver is probably better in the long run. There are also other PMs that you can buy like Platinum, Osmium, Iridium, and Palladium.

 

[bkt]

Have you ever tried to cut the wire to a WiFi device?
If communications go up in the sky to a sattelite, a backhoe won't work.

Not to beat this particular horse and continue on a tangent, but eventually the signal must come back down and travel through conventional wires. I get what you're saying. Being in the industry, I know for certain it's pretty easy to render large areas devoid of internet or power access.

And while I know you know this, wifi is very short range point-to-point. But the analogy holds. If I were going after a SID, I'd either cut power or cut the cable from the wifi router to the provider.

 

[Haertig]

Have you ever tried to cut the wire to a WiFi device?

Cutting the wire works pretty well, if the wire you cut is the power wire.

I'm glad I recently got into ham radio (portables). So even if someone cuts the wires, I can still talk to other hams. Who probably don't know any more than I do. But at least we could ask each other, "Who cut the wires?"

 

[Tacitus]

Buy half and half. The gold takes up less space but the silver is probably better in the long run. There are also other PMs that you can buy like Platinum, Osmium, Iridium, and Palladium.

I started with silver. It is the gateway metal. It is much cheaper than gold. Every paycheck, I would buy a little. If I hadn't done that, I would have spent the cash on other things, so this was an effective savings mechanism for me. I figured the coin store folks got a kick out of me and my small purchases, but I also thought it was good to get in there a couple times a month...they got to know me and trust me, and I learned a little something every time I went.

But, after a while, I was able to disciline myself, and stack (hold and not spend) my "silver" cash until I had enough to buy some gold. There are lower premiums with gold. It is a more effective way to store wealth, I think.

Silver is heavy. When you are starting out, this is totally unimportant. And, it is kind of cool to have a little bit of "heavy" wealth. But, if you find yourself starting to notice the weight of your metal, it is time to start buying gold.

I looked at platinum, but I decided to stick to the two most recognizable wealth metals, first gold, second silver. The others are just far less known, and far less purchased, and so potentially much harder to sell/echange.

 

[SheepDog]

I have shears that are made to cut cables. They cut 00 copper like a hot knife through butter. They do a nice job on fiber optic too.
A Carrington event level Solar storm will take down the worlds power system in just a few minutes. There won't be an internet for at least a decade.

 

[hiwall]

No, it cannot.
That's the whole idea behind a "web".
No matter which lines you cut, there is always a path from "point A"to "point B".
Civilization down here when we play 'SHTF':

A few years ago a fiber-optic line was cut here in AZ. It shut down all credit/debit card usage in about half the state. Was off for most of a day. No ATMs would work either. Long distance calls could not be made most places here.

 

[Supervisor42]

A few years ago a fiber-optic line was cut here in AZ. It shut down all credit/debit card usage in about half the state. Was off for most of a day. No ATMs would work either. Long distance calls could not be made most places here.

Yes, a local line can take lots of people offline. Not the entire state, and certainly not the USA.
Other keywords: "most of a day".
I doubt seriously that anyone was digging into their gold and silver coins before it was over ...
which is what this thread is about.

 

[SheepDog]

Supervisor,
I hope you realize that without the power grid the net disappears. If the power goes out because of a very large Coronal Mass Ejection it will go out world wide. It will not be repaired in ten years and likely it will take more than 20 years to get just 50% of the grid temporarily working. The internet is tied to the power grid and is just as easily disabled.

 

[Supervisor42]

Supervisor,
I hope you realize that without the power grid the net disappears. If the power goes out because of a very large Coronal Mass Ejection it will go out world wide. It will not be repaired in ten years and likely it will take more than 20 years to get just 50% of the grid temporarily working. The internet is tied to the power grid and is just as easily disabled.

There is not "A" power grid. There are thousands of power grids. They are separate.
When we blow every power pole to the ground for 100 miles around with a hurricane down here in Louisiana does the whole USA go dark?
Of course not.
Even down here, backup generators fire up up within hours, portable satellite uplinks are are put in place within 2 days. Internet alive and well.
The 'internet' being dead for years is nothing more than uninformed panic-spew.
We have destroyed everything periodically down here just to test that how fast it can be back up and running.
Days, at the most.

 

[SheepDog]

Ok, so you are saying that a Carrington type event that would burn out the distribution lines, generators and transformers at the major junctions is a myth? You are talking about small local events and I am trying to let you see a world wide event.

 

[Supervisor42]

Ok, so you are saying that a Carrington type event that would burn out the distribution lines, generators and transformers at the major junctions is a myth? You are talking about small local events and I am trying to let you see a world wide event.

Sure, mass coronal ejections occur every year. They are nothing new.
Does it trip circuit breakers? Yes.
Does it blow fuses in substations? Yes.
Are people without power until the breakers are reset or fuses changed? Yes.
Those devices protect lines, transformers, generators, etc.
Burning out transmission lines? Not possible.
Even if the worst were to happen, it would not be years, or even a month, or even a week before one of these showed up:

Yes, we have tested them, and they work great!
And they are all over the country.

 

[SheepDog]

In September of 1859 (the date of the Carrington event and the last time the Earth was hit by a major CME) telegraph lines melted, The coils on the telegraphs melted and caused fires in the telegraph offices all over the northern hemisphere. We haven't had an event like that since. Solar flares happen often, but not every day and they intersect with Earth a lot less often. We had a small event that took out Quebec and cause a power outage in New York for a few days but that was a minor event. We haven't been hit by a major CME since 1859.

 

[Supervisor42]

In September of 1859 (the date of the Carrington event and the last time the Earth was hit by a major CME) telegraph lines melted, The coils on the telegraphs melted and caused fires in the telegraph offices all over the northern hemisphere. We haven't had an event like that since. Solar flares happen often, but not every day and they intersect with Earth a lot less often. We had a small event that took out Quebec and cause a power outage in New York for a few days but that was a minor event. We haven't been hit by a major CME since 1859.

Yes, I watched 'The Great NYC Blackout' when they were caught red-handed powering the entire city from Canadian generated power.

It's a great concept to say "We don't want no evil power-generating plants anywhere around here!" and to shut them all down.
The downside is realizing that everything for miles around is plugged into a single source.
A single-point failure was all it took. PC stupidity.
Yes, telegraph networks took a direct hit in 1859 because hey, no fuses.
Fortunately, the internet is not like that.
You don't need a fuse on the 'line' from a satellite uplink dish to the satellite orbiting in space.
You don't need a fuse on the 'line' from a 3G wireless device to a cell-tower.
All of these RF devices have been hardened against an EMP, which is expected.
Thinking the 'national grid' will somehow go down and be destroyed is irrational because it is impossible.
The whole USA is not plugged into just one outlet (unlike NYC).

Now, back to silver and gold .

 

[BadgerLandHunter]

Suffice it to say, not everyone is going to agree. However, I think everyone's situation is different. If you have cash that you don't know what to do with and you have all your other bases covered such as food, fuel, shelter, security, medical, property, water, etc., then PM's have their place. Personally, I like to dabble in everything (except Bitcoin b/c I don't understand it). If SHTF, then everything has it's place and the importance of those things will vary depending upon the seriousness of the situation and the timing of it. Right off the bat, PM's will be the least of my worry. However, I also look long term as well, and PM's will be a hedge against inflation and will have value when things start getting back to some sort of normal.

That said, I'll probably never use or sell my silver. That's fine by me......and I doubt my kids will mind having it when I'm gone. I'm sure they'd rather have that than my LTS foods that will likely still be in their buckets and expired by then. Actually, I have some silver that my Grandpa had. He lived thru the Great Depression and thought it wise to always have some silver on hand. God rest his soul.

Nobody knows for sure what's going to happen, which is why I have PM's. It's a hedge against uncertainty for me and I could afford to buy some when the price was low, so I did.

Look at post #50 on this thread and there are links to other discussions that we've had on the forum that I think you'll find interesting. I am grateful to be able to learn from others on this forum that are much more knowledgeable about this topic than I.

Sorry didn't receive or notice any notification for your reply.
No that makes sense and I agree. Who would be disappointed if all goes well and you leave some PM for the futer family.
Thanks I should check it out. What you said makes a lot of sense as to why to have it though.