Today, Saturday I just bought a couple grand worth of Silver

[Tacitus]

If the dollar value goes to zero.
Pm is valued by the dollar , right.

PMs are valued by the dollar now, because the dollar still has value.

Think about what society will be like when the dollar is at zero value. Anarchy. Metals may or may not have value at that point. Maybe only commodities will have value at that time.

But, that won't happen over night. Think about the time period in which the dollar is going through a period of collapse. Metals will definitely have value during that period.

They are increasing in value now. Ask yourself why the world banks own gold? What possible use could they have for it? They use it as a hedge for bad times. When currencies go down in value, metals go up.

Think of money as a medium of exchange, so I don't have to barter. It is a way of translating the value of a loaf of bread to the value of services provided. Metals may or may not replace our currency as a medium of exchange when currencies go to zero. But, the thought is that if there is any medium of exchange at all (e.g., we haven't fallen totally to barter), then gold and silver will be that medium of exchange. Gold and silver have been "money" for thousands of years, and the rich are running to gold and silver right now as a hedge.

We have to pick the medium in which we keep our wealth. Some keep it in dollars...some in Euros...some in Swiss Francs...some in gold...some in silver...some in stocks and bonds...some in real estate. Whether you have thought about it or not, you have chosen a medium for your wealth. If you have it in only one medium (e.g., the dollar), then you are at risk if the dollar collapses. Maybe keep some of your wealth in dollars, some in stocks, some in gold, some in real estate, etc. That way, when the dollar goes to zero, you may still have some wealth, even if you lost all your wealth you had stored in dollars.

I don't put all my wealth in gold. But, I do put a small portion of it. If the dollar goes to zero, I should have something.

I mean 10oz of silver is valued/worth is 300 dollars, which is worth zero.

But, metals don't only have value in terms of dollars. You can translate the value of gold into the value of a bushel of grain, or the value of a tank of gas. When the dollar is at zero, you can't buy corn or gass with it. But, you may be able to buy corn or gas with gold.

 

[phideaux]

PMs are valued by the dollar now, because the dollar still has value.

Think about what society will be like when the dollar is at zero value. Anarchy. Metals may or may not have value at that point. Maybe only commodities will have value at that time.

But, that won't happen over night. Think about the time period in which the dollar is going through a period of collapse. Metals will definitely have value during that period.

They are increasing in value now. Ask yourself why the world banks own gold? What possible use could they have for it? They use it as a hedge for bad times. When currencies go down in value, metals go up.

Think of money as a medium of exchange, so I don't have to barter. It is a way of translating the value of a loaf of bread to the value of services provided. Metals may or may not replace our currency as a medium of exchange when currencies go to zero. But, the thought is that if there is any medium of exchange at all (e.g., we haven't fallen totally to barter), then gold and silver will be that medium of exchange. Gold and silver have been "money" for thousands of years, and the rich are running to gold and silver right now as a hedge.

We have to pick the medium in which we keep our wealth. Some keep it in dollars...some in Euros...some in Swiss Francs...some in gold...some in silver...some in stocks and bonds...some in real estate. Whether you have thought about it or not, you have chosen a medium for your wealth. If you have it in only one medium (e.g., the dollar), then you are at risk if the dollar collapses. Maybe keep some of your wealth in dollars, some in stocks, some in gold, some in real estate, etc. That way, when the dollar goes to zero, you may still have some wealth, even if you lost all your wealth you had stored in dollars.

I don't put all my wealth in gold. But, I do put a small portion of it. If the dollar goes to zero, I should have something.


But, metals don't only have value in terms of dollars. You can translate the value of gold into the value of a bushel of grain, or the value of a tank of gas. When the dollar is at zero, you can't buy corn or gass with it. But, you may be able to buy corn or gas with gold.

Now that is the answer that makes sense to me.

I just could not justify valueing pm against a worthless piece of paper called a dollar.
Now value it against a bushel of grain or tank of gas ,that makes sense.

So I wish they didn't value gold and silver in dollars...because dollars are going to be worth zero, but value it in tangible , useful "things".

Ok.

Jim

 

[Tacitus]

Who here would buy $5000 of silver or gold right now , just to convert, almost worthless cash, soon to be used to start fires with, into something of value.

Or would you convert it into something else ?
What?

Right now?

I'm stacking cash right now, not metals. I'm aggressively saving dollars.

The time to buy metals was during the the past 2-4 years.

I suppose if I had $100,000, and I had no metals, I might put $5000 into tenth ounce gold coins and some silver coins (bullion coins, not collectibles). But, I wouldn't do it as an investment, that is for sure. I would do it for a hedge / insurance. When the $95,000 in dollars becomes worth $20,000, the $5000 in gold will be worth $25,000 or more.

But, if I only had $5000, I would keep the $5000 in dollar form...and I might keep it at home instead of in a bank. I'd probably spend $100 on fire safe, put the money in it, and hide the safe. Then, if the stuff really starts to hit the fan economically, I'd use that cash to buy things I will need over the next year or so.

 

[Spikedriver]

Right now?

I'm stacking cash right not, not metals. I'm aggressively saving dollars.

The time to buy metals was during the the past 2-4 years.

I suppose if I had $100,000, and I had no metals, I might put $5000 into tenth ounce gold coins and some silver coins (bullion coins, not collectibles). But, I wouldn't do it as an investment, that is for sure. I would do it for a hedge / insurance. When the $95,000 becomes worth $20,000, the $5000 in gold will be worth $25,000 or more.

But, if I only had $5000, I would keep the $5000 in dollar form...and I might keep it at home instead of in a bank. I'd probably spend $100 on fire safe, put the money in it, and hide the safe. Then, if the stuff really starts to hit the fan economically, I'd use that cash to buy things I will need over the next year or so.

Agreed. I'm trying to stack cash too. But I'm getting to the point that PM might be an option. I'd personally prefer to invest in land, particularly agricultural land, but that takes more capital than I'm ever going to have.

Ag land will always provide an income stream. Somebody will pay you to farm it. The only issue is taxes, and if the government ever decides it can confiscate your land...

 

[Tacitus]

Now that is the answer that makes sense to me.

I just could not justify valueing pm against a worthless piece of paper called a dollar.
Now value it against a bushel of grain or tank of gas ,that makes sense.

So I wish they didn't value gold and silver in dollars...because dollars are going to be worth zero, but value it in tangible , useful "things".

Here is how PM stackers think:

• In 1915, you could buy a nice suit in New York City with an ounce of gold ($35).
• In 2015, you can buy a nice suit in New York City with an ounce of gold ($1100).

So, the value of an expensive suit has changed in terms of the dollar ($35 to $1100), because the dollar has inflated (lost value). But, the value of the suit is the same in terms of gold. That is, gold maintains value where currency does not.

That is the logic of a gold buyer. Gold preserves wealth. But, it is not an investment. If you bought stocks in 1915, you would have done better as an investment...unless you bought companies that went bankrupt...or unless you were a Japanese businessman buying Japanese stocks in 1915...WWII undid all of that value and they had a major reset. If the Japanese businessman bought gold instead, he would have maintained his value for after WWII.

I picked 2015 instead of 2020 because times were more normal. Now that things are going insane, gold is much higher. It is valued higher because of troubled times, over and above its normal value.

 

[phideaux]

Right now?

I'm stacking cash right not, not metals. I'm aggressively saving dollars.

The time to buy metals was during the the past 2-4 years.

I suppose if I had $100,000, and I had no metals, I might put $5000 into tenth ounce gold coins and some silver coins (bullion coins, not collectibles). But, I wouldn't do it as an investment, that is for sure. I would do it for a hedge / insurance. When the $95,000 becomes worth $20,000, the $5000 in gold will be worth $25,000 or more.

But, if I only had $5000, I would keep the $5000 in dollar form...and I might keep it at home instead of in a bank. I'd probably spend $100 on fire safe, put the money in it, and hide the safe. Then, if the stuff really starts to hit the fan economically, I'd use that cash to buy things I will need over the next year or so.

Thank you sir.

I have checked the prices of PM , and ,agree, I would not buy it right
now . Because I don't have that $100,000 in cash . I have real estate , some jewels such as diamond , $50,000 in guns( for barter) , many other assets for barter.

But no PM for a medium of exchange for when the dollar goes to zero.
We do not use banks , other than , small checking account for utilty bills.
So , seems I should seriously keep an eye on PMs price and grab some when I see it turn or even level off .
But it seems that it's only going to keep going up in value , because the dollar is shrinking.

Jim

 

[Tacitus]

... I'd personally prefer to invest in land, particularly agricultural land, but that takes more capital than I'm ever going to have.

Agreed. I would like to buy land. But, I don't have the capital, as you say.

 

[phideaux]

Agreed. I would like to buy land. But, I don't have the capital, as you say.

But you can't use land as a medium of exchange.

The only thing my land will do is provide food and water for me.

Jim

 

[Tacitus]

I have real estate , some jewels such as diamond , $50,000 in guns( for barter) , many other assets for barter.

Real estate is good.

Jewels will retain some value, but they worry me for this reason: If someone has to put a jeweler's eye piece (loupe?) in their eye, and say, "Hmmmm," and give you their personal/professional assessment of how good of quality it is, and therefore the value of it, then you are at their mercy. That is why I stay away from collectible coins. Bullion coins have mostly bullion value, and that value is not subject to personal judgement, just market effects. Also, diamonds are made from carbon, and they can be artificially manufactured now. Not so with gold; they still have to dig gold out of the ground.

High quality guns really do hold their value. I bought a high quality gun 25 years ago, and if I sold it now, I would get at least my money back, and now, probably get 150% of what I paid. Again, not an investment, but a good wealth preserver.

Of course, it is easier to sell a gold coin than a gun.

So , seems I should seriously keep an eye on PMs price and grab some when I see it turn or even level off .
But it seems that it's only going to keep going up in value , because the dollar is shrinking.

I was still a buyer of PMs when the prices jumped. When you are a buyer, high prices are bad. So, even though I own some, I don't own as much as I wanted, so I hate the high prices even though my "portfolio" is looking better on paper because of the price jump.

I will be a gold buyer again when (IF!) gold goes down. I stopped buying at around $1300...in hindsight, I should have bought at least another time, maybe up to $1400. But, who knows???

 

[Tacitus]

The only thing my land will do is provide food and water for me.

Only?

Alas, my land doesn't provide that to me...at least not sufficiently. That is why I am interested in land. I am in suburbia...admittedly, distant suburbia, but suburbia nonetheless. I would like to change my position by moving out of suburbia and into nearby rural areas.

 

[phideaux]

Thanks for helping me understand some things.

I latched on to 2 terms that help me
One..medium of exchange..that is important to me.
Two ..wealth preserver..that's important also.

Now I am more confident in what I'm doing , and will do for future financials.

Jim

 

[Tacitus]

Thanks for helping me understand some things.

No prob! Good talking with you!

 

[phideaux]

Only?

Alas, my land doesn't provide that to me...at least not sufficiently. That is why I am interested in land. I am in suburbia...admittedly, distant suburbia, but suburbia nonetheless. I would like to change my position by moving out of suburbia and into nearby rural areas.

Land
One of the diversity
things .

My land is too much for me to maintain the way I once did, but it can provide food and water.
I'm very rural.

Jim

 

[Spikedriver]

Land
One of the diversity
things .

My land is too much for me to maintain the way I once did, but it can provide food and water.
I'm very rural.

Jim

I am most interested in land for:

Having a place I can put my feet on, that is mine - and is of sufficient size to provide a buffer between me and my neighbors.

And,

Land which provides income. I'd prefer land that someone else would pay rent on. This carries a bit of risk, but cash rent on 160 acres of good land can be over 50k/year in my area. Of course, to buy that 160 acres can cost a million and a quarter in my area at this time, so it's not a wise investment right now. But if you bought in 2000 when it went for less than 500k, you'd be golden now...

 

[Haertig]

My take on gold and silver: Why are they valuable? Are they of any use to the common man (other than someone interested in taking on dental work for gang bangers)? What would you do with a chunk of gold? Other than trade it for something else. I view it as a currency, nothing more. It is valuable because people have collectively said it is valuable. It is good for plating electrical contacts, so I guess if your gang banger dentistry project falls through, you could go into electronics manufacture. Other than that, it's pretty useless I say. You could make jewelry out of it, if you think that would be a hot seller in the post-apocalypse.

My point being that gold (and silver) have traditionally been considered valuable. That may or may not continue. Do you know why purple is considered the color of royalty? Because at one time it was hard to get that color. The plants or whatever they made the color out of were rare or difficult to obtain, or the process to extract the color was tedious (I don't know the reason). But these days, how many here would pay a premium for a purple shirt? Most likely you'd demand an extra discount to take that unsaleable color off the stores bargain basement rack. Purple used to be extremely valuable. Not any more. People who invested in it probably still have great grandkids out begging on the streets now.

Post-SHTF, would gold be worth anything? Maybe. Maybe not. It would depend on if survivors expected the previous economy to come back. It would depend on whether the SHTF globally, wiping out all countries economies. You could end up rich with your gold. Or you could end up barely being able to buy a half-used box of .22 ammo with 4 lbs of the stuff.

Right now, I would say that gold in Venezuela would be the thing to have. That's because Venezuela is trashed, but the rest of the world isn't (yet). You can still trade gold worldwide. But it's really just a fancy currency. If the whole world economy goes south - as it well could with coronavirus - gold could become a very heavy albatross around your neck. (Or, you could end up so stinking rich, flashing your bling-bling around, while watching me build my mud hut in my loin cloth!)

 

[Supervisor42]

Land
One of the diversity
things .

My land is too much for me to maintain the way I once did, but it can provide food and water.
I'm very rural.

Jim

Land never goes down in value. They are not making more of it.
It doesn't make a lot of money unless somebody works it.
I can't think of anybody that owns property today that paid more than it worth today.
Unlike PM, it can be put to work to earn income. Monthly.
It can be bought today for 2.5% or less down payment.
Next thing you know, you have an "estate".

 

[Spikedriver]

Land never goes down in value. They are not making more of it.
It doesn't make a lot of money unless somebody works it.
I can't think of anybody that owns property today that paid more than it worth today.
Unlike PM, it can be put to work to earn income. Monthly.
It can be bought today for 2.5% or less down payment.
Next thing you know, you have an "estate".

There are cases where the bottom drops out of land value but in general, you are correct. There have been times when farm land has lost a good bit of value, but it has always come back. Likewise, if you're speculating on land gaining value, you better make a wise decision. I've seen houses lose value in my area because an adjacent property owner sold his land to one of the giant pork producers, who then built swine facilities 500 yards away from the houses. Guess who wants to live 500 yards from 2400 pigs? Nobody...

 

[phideaux]

From what I have gathered , thru discussion here, is that unless the world goes totaly to a barter way ,system, of life, there will be some way of purchasing necessities.
What that " medium of exchange " will be , is anybody's guess.
But,
Ya kinda got to look at history , before the almighty dollar came into existence....and that would give you a get hint as to what that might be.

I'm not talking about assets , or barter items, but a " medium of exchange"
Looks like it's always been PM.

I should probably be diverse enough to have some on hand just in case it does retain purchasing power.
Land, guns,ammo, diamonds, have their place...but it won't be the standard purchasing medium.

And , like @Haertig , said ,I can make decorations with it , if not. Or I could melt it, cast it for weights.

Jim

 

[Tacitus]

My take on gold and silver: Why are they valuable? Are they of any use to the common man...? ... It is valuable because people have collectively said it is valuable. ... Other than that, it's pretty useless.... [G]old (and silver) have traditionally been considered valuable. That may or may not continue.

As I read this, I substituted "the dollar" in place of "gold and silver". The dollar is valuable only because people have collectively said it has value. That may or may not continue. When the full faith of the United States begins to mean less, people might start to think they just have a bunch of fancy papers.

The one thing that gold has going for it is that the feeling of value crosses borders and crosses time. People from every nation since the dawn of civilization have said it is valuable. It has a little more historical credibility than the dollar. For millenia, gold was money...different nations had different coins, but the value was in the coin itself to a larger degree than for our paper currency. At least you could weigh gold coins from different nations or empires to compare their value. When national fiat/paper currencies arose, gold was always the last resort when those national currencies failed...and they always failed at some point.

Since WWII, the dollar has been the second last resort. Argentinian peso failing?...use dollars instead, even in Argentina. People will look for another medium of exchange. When Venezuela recently had to pay the company that printed its money, they paid in gold. Even other nations, with their own currencies, have dollar reserves as their second to last resort, and gold reserves as their last resort. Gold is the ultimate last resort, for when the dollar fails.

Gold was the first Euro...for a while, most every country in Europe was making a 20 Franc coin as members of the Latin Monetary Union. From Wikipedia:

"The Euro before the Euro"
Although the portraits and legends changed with the political changes in France, the denomination remained in usage until the First World War under what was known as the Latin Monetary Union, the "Euro before the Euro", so-to-speak. Switzerland had 20 Swiss franc pieces, Spain had 20 peseta coins, Italy had 20 lira pieces, Belgium had 20 Belgian franc coins, and Greece had 20 drachma coins, all of which circulated and were accepted throughout Europe. Only for political reasons did the United Kingdom and the German Empire refuse to follow this direction. Attempts were even taken to explore the unification of the European currency with the American dollar, which explains the extremely rare U.S. pattern coins carrying $4 marking on the face.

They were all different denominations, and had different pictures and slogans on them, but they were all the same size and same gold content, and were tradable across the continent.

The British came up with their own: the British Sovereign. They've been making it for a few hundred years. It is well recognized around the world...recall the British Empire was everywhere. It was minted in many different countries.

 

[Supervisor42]

Ah! Your puny gold coins are no match for my awesome Bitcoins!

(If you cannot see the humor in this picture, you should not be buying coins)

 

[hiwall]

No one knows what the future will bring. But one thing is certain.
Every day for the last many many years the US dollar has lost value. Everyday that dollar in your pocket is worth less and less. And that is an acknowledged fact.

 

[phideaux]

No one knows what the future will bring. But one thing is certain.
Every day for the last many many years the US dollar has lost value. Everyday that dollar in your pocket is worth less and less. And that is an acknowledged fact.

In early 1969 , I bought a new car , 1968 Dodge Superbee, $3500.

Today , the equivalent car is on average $50,000.

Do the math.
Dollar ain't worth much when it takes that many .

Jim

 

[Spikedriver]

In early 1969 , I bought a new car , 1968 Dodge Superbee, $3500.

Today , the equivalent car is on average $50,000.

Do the math.
Dollar ain't worth much when it takes that many .

Jim

In '69, the average worker probably made, what? 2500-3500 a year. So that car was probably a year's wage or a bit more. Now, for what a typical worker makes in my area (25k to 35k per year or just a little more) for that year's wage you don't get much for a new car. Unless you're wanting a small car...

Imagine if an average guy from 1968 was time-travelled to 2020. He'd be amazed that $20/hour isn't an amazing wage, because our houses cost $180k and an average new truck is almost 50k.
Hell, I'm amazed. When I graduated high school in '91 new trucks were around 20k and all the farmers whined bitterly about the cost. But if you made 7.50/hr back then, you did ok...

 

[angie_nrs]

and an average new truck is almost 50k.

When we bought our first brand new truck in 2012, it cost more than that.

 

[Spikedriver]

When we bought our first brand new truck in 2012, it cost more than that.

Lol I'm just going off the websites from my local Ford and Chevy dealers. The average, middle of the road trucks are around 47-50k. The fancy ones? Well...the highest price I saw, for a F150 Raptor, was 76k. There was a new Suburban for 91k. Unreal...

 

[BadgerLandHunter]

You guys know way more about this subject than me but let me ask a question. What about lead? Why not invest some in something that is fairly easy to shape and melt down and during SHTF can be used several ways?

I have a coworker who is an extreme prepper and said you can't eat gold or silver (he is big into gardening) but then said lead will be worth way more in the time soon after SHTF would happen.

Or are y'all referring to a time before its SHTF or a longer time after the initial incident would happen?

I agree the dollar is going down hill especially with this incentive check of $600 from broke Uncle Sam.

 

[viking]

I just checked Kitco, silver was $22.57 and gold is $1,888.10. If the world dumps the Petro dollar, US dollar, it will devaluate extremely and any new monitary system put in place would probably not accept US dollars, if they did the ratios would be frightening. Some of the talk I've been hearing about a new currency is that it probably be partially gold backed, so, I'd guess that having a bit of silver and gold could be a very good thing.

 

[bkt]

Ah! Your puny gold coins are no match for my awesome Bitcoins!
View attachment 46980
(If you cannot see the humor in this picture, you should not be buying coins)

I mine crypto and buy PM with them. That has worked out well for me.

Speaking only for myself, keeping PMs is only as a store of wealth for some time after the dust has settled and there's a new currency. During a SHTF situation, I'd barter with cigarettes, condoms, fish hooks, tampons, booze...that kind of stuff.

 

[angie_nrs]

I have a coworker who is an extreme prepper and said you can't eat gold or silver (he is big into gardening) but then said lead will be worth way more in the time soon after SHTF would happen.

Or are y'all referring to a time before its SHTF or a longer time after the initial incident would happen?

I agree the dollar is going down hill especially with this incentive check of $600 from broke Uncle Sam.

Suffice it to say, not everyone is going to agree. However, I think everyone's situation is different. If you have cash that you don't know what to do with and you have all your other bases covered such as food, fuel, shelter, security, medical, property, water, etc., then PM's have their place. Personally, I like to dabble in everything (except Bitcoin b/c I don't understand it). If SHTF, then everything has it's place and the importance of those things will vary depending upon the seriousness of the situation and the timing of it. Right off the bat, PM's will be the least of my worry. However, I also look long term as well, and PM's will be a hedge against inflation and will have value when things start getting back to some sort of normal.

That said, I'll probably never use or sell my silver. That's fine by me......and I doubt my kids will mind having it when I'm gone. I'm sure they'd rather have that than my LTS foods that will likely still be in their buckets and expired by then. Actually, I have some silver that my Grandpa had. He lived thru the Great Depression and thought it wise to always have some silver on hand. God rest his soul.

Nobody knows for sure what's going to happen, which is why I have PM's. It's a hedge against uncertainty for me and I could afford to buy some when the price was low, so I did.

Look at post #50 (on page 2) of this thread and there are links to other discussions that we've had on the forum that I think you'll find interesting. I am grateful to be able to learn from others on this forum that are much more knowledgeable about this topic than I.

 

[phideaux]

I mine crypto and buy PM with them. That has worked out well for me.

Speaking only for myself, keeping PMs is only as a store of wealth for some time after the dust has settled and there's a new currency. During a SHTF situation, I'd barter with cigarettes, condoms, fish hooks, tampons, booze...that kind of stuff.

If your storing condoms, tampons ,and fish hooks ...be very careful.

Jim