We are here, it's happening now!

[dademoss]

NO ONE IS COMING!

 

[Supervisor42]

Groups are great when:
...
Even those you are charitable to and feed will be unreliable. We live in a society of mostly ungrateful people.

We know by actual experience that when SHTF, you will have more 'friends' show up than you think because they know you will take care of them.
And when you do, they will invite others.
I think this is the most important factor that preppers never think about.
And it is real.

 

[Aerindel]

Groups are great when:
1) all the members of the group are smart, of common mind set and purpose
2) all the members of the group are 100% worthy of trust and 100% dedicated to achievement of missions the group decides are to be accomplished
3) all the group members give up any sense of duty to anyone outside the group
4) all the group members have a good work ethic and are tough enough to take hardship without losing motivation or performance
5) all the group members accept the same chain of command and leadership
6) all the group members agree on the moral code and ethics the group will operate based upon and are committed to apply that code uniformly
7) all the group members are productive, hard working and contribute more than they cost the group in resources
8) none of the group members has any significant degree of normalcy bias
9) the group possesses enough resources to keep the whole group well sheltered, fed, watered, washed, clothed, fit, healthy, transported, armed, protected, hidden, treated (for injury or sickness) and motivated.
10) harmony and agreement can be maintained because all members of the group prioritize that over individual freedom, comfort, safety and belief. All group members would die to save any other one or more members of the group.

Those criteria are tough to obtain and will only be possible with very special and rare people who want to be in the group and you have known for decades (rather than casual acquaintances). They need to be people who you have already been with during tense and dangerous situations and have proven they will do what it takes to keep the group alive and accomplish missions.

You won't be able to achieve a group like the above drawn from family members - because family are the result of random genetic accident rather than selection.

You are even less likely to be able to achieve anything even slightly similar to the above drawn from your neighbors - because neighbors are only your neighbors, as a result of a geographical accident.

........and in closing, anyone who plans to rely upon their community in a very severe crisis, needs to ensure they can feed all those people - because all unfed people near you will be a threat. In all my time on forums, I have never read a post by someone saying "Oh yeah.....I have prepped to feed my whole town....so I know they will stay cooperative and dedicated to our groups surivival....."

Even if you could feed them all, they will have friends and family outside your roadblocks. They will have more loyalty to those people than to anyone in your town (including you).......they will let those people in through your road blocks........then those people (new members of your community?????) will still have friends/family on the outside (and no reason to be loyal to the town)..........

Even those you are charitable to and feed will be unreliable. We live in a society of mostly ungrateful people.

This post should be a sticky.

 

[dademoss]

There was a time when I thought I had a nice group of like minded individuals. Watched way more than one of them crumble and run under the very slightest of pressure. Now it's me, my dw, and the guy behind me. I am kinda sad there are only two people I would trust with a firearm behind me, but we play the cards we are dealt.

 

[Pearl]

Did something happen on Friday when this was posted? Or was it a more generic "the time is upon us" prediction ... a call to arms?

If the time is upon us, there is no getting any more prepared than we already are. Hopefully it is enough. I guess I am as prepared as I want to be. Could I be more prepared? Of course. Do I have five years of food stored in my basement? No. Would I want to live for five years on food stored in my basement? No. So I have made a choice on my level of preparedness. I would have no one to blame other than myself if I later change my mind and decide that I am underprepared. I am comfortable at my current level of preparedness. It is what it is - a compromise of many things. I have been unwilling to pack up everything and move to a homestead in the middle of nowhere without any family/friends nearby, totally dependent on myself alone. So for that choice, I will now have to be a "suburban survivor". Along with all the potential minuses that go along with that.

Generic, glad you are prepared! If you read some of the other posts you are crazy if you are prepared, you are not really prepared, and if you are............blah blah blah! But, I am prepared, glad you are too!

 

[Supervisor42]

We know by actual experience that when SHTF, you will have more 'friends' show up than you think because they know you will take care of them.
And when you do, they will invite others.
I think this is the most important factor that preppers never think about.
And it is real.

Visitor: "My best friend Debbie is all by herself and has no running water, no power, or food to eat, and nowhere to go. Can she come stay with us, or are you truly a cold, heartless, SOB?"
Be ready to answer that question.
"Oh, she can! That's awesome!"
"Of course she will be bringing her 3 dogs; if she leaves them behind, they will starve."

 

[Tirediron]

The end of the world as we knew it happen in early 2020, this is the aftermath, those who refuse to get as prepared as they can for it as it unravels farther are just sticking their heads in the sand.

 

[Tirediron]

Visitor: "My best friend Debbie is all by herself and has no running water, no power, or food to eat, and nowhere to go. Can she come stay with us, or are you truly a cold, heartless, SOB?"
Be ready to answer that question.
"Oh, she can! That's awesome!"
"Of course she will be bringing her 3 dogs; if she leaves them behind, they will starve."

Of course she can , we can always use more slaves,

 

[rice paddy daddy]

Groups?
Oh, heck no.
The only guys I would ever really trust served with me long ago and far away.
The guys I know down at the VFW and American Legion MAY be trustworthy. That all depends on whether or not they saw the elephant.

Just me, the wife, and the Lord here on Answered Prayers Farm.

 

[Pearl]

Guess I have to leave, I really liked it here!! Sorry, I am prepared! I can make snares from grapevines, catch squirrels to deer. Can kill, gut and clean them. Start the fire from scratch, no lighter, and cook them. I can abandon ship (home) and live in the wild! So if you "would rather be blind" ones don't want to learn, Guess I am of no help!

 

[Tootsie]

Groups are great when:
1) all the members of the group are smart, of common mind set and purpose
2) all the members of the group are 100% worthy of trust and 100% dedicated to achievement of missions the group decides are to be accomplished
3) all the group members give up any sense of duty to anyone outside the group
4) all the group members have a good work ethic and are tough enough to take hardship without losing motivation or performance
5) all the group members accept the same chain of command and leadership
6) all the group members agree on the moral code and ethics the group will operate based upon and are committed to apply that code uniformly
7) all the group members are productive, hard working and contribute more than they cost the group in resources
8) none of the group members has any significant degree of normalcy bias
9) the group possesses enough resources to keep the whole group well sheltered, fed, watered, washed, clothed, fit, healthy, transported, armed, protected, hidden, treated (for injury or sickness) and motivated.
10) harmony and agreement can be maintained because all members of the group prioritize that over individual freedom, comfort, safety and belief. All group members would die to save any other one or more members of the group.

Those criteria are tough to obtain and will only be possible with very special and rare people who want to be in the group and you have known for decades (rather than casual acquaintances). They need to be people who you have already been with during tense and dangerous situations and have proven they will do what it takes to keep the group alive and accomplish missions.

You won't be able to achieve a group like the above drawn from family members - because family are the result of random genetic accident rather than selection.

You are even less likely to be able to achieve anything even slightly similar to the above drawn from your neighbors - because neighbors are only your neighbors, as a result of a geographical accident.

........and in closing, anyone who plans to rely upon their community in a very severe crisis, needs to ensure they can feed all those people - because all unfed people near you will be a threat. In all my time on forums, I have never read a post by someone saying "Oh yeah.....I have prepped to feed my whole town....so I know they will stay cooperative and dedicated to our groups surivival....."

Even if you could feed them all, they will have friends and family outside your roadblocks. They will have more loyalty to those people than to anyone in your town (including you).......they will let those people in through your road blocks........then those people (new members of your community?????) will still have friends/family on the outside (and no reason to be loyal to the town)..........

Even those you are charitable to and feed will be unreliable. We live in a society of mostly ungrateful people.

I read this, and my first thought was, you want to be a Mennonite? Sorry.

 

[Weedygarden]

Visitor: "My best friend Debbie is all by herself and has no running water, no power, or food to eat, and nowhere to go. Can she come stay with us, or are you truly a cold, heartless, SOB?"
Be ready to answer that question.
"Oh, she can! That's awesome!"
"Of course she will be bringing her 3 dogs; if she leaves them behind, they will starve."

And by the time Debbie gets to your place, she has also recruited a few more desperate friends who "really need to come" as well. If you don't retrieve Debbie's phone and all the phones of people arriving, there will be a line of people coming to your place. What are they going to do from the time they get off the phone and even after they are at your place? Talk, talk, talk to everyone they know about where they are going and how you can take care of the all of them.

 

[goshengirl]

Is this the same Debbie that @Peanut was talking to? Just checking...

 

[Weedygarden]

Groups are great when:
1) all the members of the group are smart, of common mind set and purpose
2) all the members of the group are 100% worthy of trust and 100% dedicated to achievement of missions the group decides are to be accomplished
3) all the group members give up any sense of duty to anyone outside the group
4) all the group members have a good work ethic and are tough enough to take hardship without losing motivation or performance
5) all the group members accept the same chain of command and leadership
6) all the group members agree on the moral code and ethics the group will operate based upon and are committed to apply that code uniformly
7) all the group members are productive, hard working and contribute more than they cost the group in resources
8) none of the group members has any significant degree of normalcy bias
9) the group possesses enough resources to keep the whole group well sheltered, fed, watered, washed, clothed, fit, healthy, transported, armed, protected, hidden, treated (for injury or sickness) and motivated.
10) harmony and agreement can be maintained because all members of the group prioritize that over individual freedom, comfort, safety and belief. All group members would die to save any other one or more members of the group.

Those criteria are tough to obtain and will only be possible with very special and rare people who want to be in the group and you have known for decades (rather than casual acquaintances). They need to be people who you have already been with during tense and dangerous situations and have proven they will do what it takes to keep the group alive and accomplish missions.

You won't be able to achieve a group like the above drawn from family members - because family are the result of random genetic accident rather than selection.

You are even less likely to be able to achieve anything even slightly similar to the above drawn from your neighbors - because neighbors are only your neighbors, as a result of a geographical accident.

........and in closing, anyone who plans to rely upon their community in a very severe crisis, needs to ensure they can feed all those people - because all unfed people near you will be a threat. In all my time on forums, I have never read a post by someone saying "Oh yeah.....I have prepped to feed my whole town....so I know they will stay cooperative and dedicated to our groups surivival....."

Even if you could feed them all, they will have friends and family outside your roadblocks. They will have more loyalty to those people than to anyone in your town (including you).......they will let those people in through your road blocks........then those people (new members of your community?????) will still have friends/family on the outside (and no reason to be loyal to the town)..........

Even those you are charitable to and feed will be unreliable. We live in a society of mostly ungrateful people.

This is absolutely the bottom line about it all. If anyone has a clue about you having anything, the whole town and the next town and all the relatives will be there, desperate and hysterical, making demands. People will die and it will all go to hell.

 

[Hardcalibres]

We know by actual experience that when SHTF, you will have more 'friends' show up than you think because they know you will take care of them.
And when you do, they will invite others.
I think this is the most important factor that preppers never think about.
And it is real.

That is why OPSEC is so important to survivalists.

The only people who should know what you have, are those that you need to know (for loners, that will be no one......for people in groups, that will be just the group).

There are plenty of survivalists who have even kept their preps secret from their own children (or even spouse). Very few people can keep secrets......as a survivalist you accept that, maintain OPSEC accordingly and move on.

I have read posts from people who had to move to another state because they failed to protect OPSEC and realized they could not prep their way out of that problem without starting again somewhere distant.

 

[Weedygarden]

Is this the same Debbie that @Peanut was talking to? Just checking...

Supervisors, but maybe the same as Peanuts. I don't know.

 

[Weedygarden]

What an awesome discussion!

 

[Sourdough]

When ever I get to thinking it would be great to be a hard working part of a neighborhood, community, or town survival group...........I go to Walmart and visually assess the ratio of those capable of the slightest work.

 

[Hardcalibres]

I read this, and my first thought was, you want to be a Mennonite? Sorry.

........actually, I was mostly describing what it is like to be in a very close knit part of the military........and why that is considered "special"

 

[Pearl]

Guess I have to leave, I really liked it here!! Sorry, I am prepared! I can make snares from grapevines, catch squirrels to deer. Can kill, gut and clean them. Start the fire from scratch, no lighter, and cook them. I can abandon ship (home) and live in the wild! So if you "would rather be blind" ones don't want to learn, Guess I am of no help! ☹

So who else thinks I need to leave HCL?

 

[TENNGRIZZ]

So who else thinks I need to leave HCL?

Stay you're good to go in my book. I don't see any problem.

 

[Sourdough]

If you observed most peoples skills are Talking on a cell phone, eating, sleeping, grooming themselves to look good, eating, watching TV'thingie, pissing and moaning, shopping, visiting a doctor, talking on a cell phone, eating, pooping.

 

[Weedygarden]

So who else thinks I need to leave HCL?

I don't understand. Why would you need to leave? This has been one of the most real conversations we have ever had here, and it is thanks to you!

 

[Supervisor42]

Supervisors, but maybe the same as Peanuts. I don't know.

Oh she's great, but her dogs are a PITA!

 

[TENNGRIZZ]

Now my thoughts are this. I'm on several forums and this is a really good one in my book. And for one reason or another we are all here. Now I've made friends on this forum and several others who I've met in person and some we plan on getting together soon just to meet up and have exchanged # and talk anywhere from 1 -4 times a month. In any of the scenarios we talk about. None of us know for sure which way the wind will blow when the storms come. So with that said always precede with caution but chances are if one can get along with folks here on the forum there's a better chance that folks might get along when it counts compared to the rest of the general population.

 

[Weedygarden]

Now my thoughts are this. I'm on several forums and this is a really good one in my book. And for one reason or another we are all here. Now I've made friends on this forum and several others who I've met in person and some we plan on getting together soon just to meet up and have exchanged # and talk anywhere from 1 -4 times a month. In any of the scenarios we talk about. None of us know for sure which way the wind will blow when the storms come. So with that said always precede with caution but chances are if one can get along with folks here on the forum there's a better chance that folks might get along when it counts compared to the rest of the general population.

I agree. We stand a better chance with others here, but not 100%.

Ever gotten along with someone for a long time, and then all of a sudden, their true colors show themselves? I have. I've known some for more than 20 years and then I want absolutely nothing to do with them.

In a SHTF situation, you have to be able to come to agreements for the sake of lives. It is a risk you may need to take.

I always wonder how to get to know people better, so that you can see what they are really like and if you will come to blows or end up being like blood brothers and sisters? Traveling and getting away from the normal is one way that I have found out about people. For some, it was good. For some, it was not.

 

[TENNGRIZZ]

I say at first just exchange # and small talk meet at a local restaurant for dinner or breakfast if several are coming reserve a banquet room. And go from there. I agree Nothing is ever 100% everything is a calculated risk.

 

[Haertig]

I always wonder how to get to know people better

Invite them to come be your house guest for a month. That should just about cover it.

Sounds like a joke, but it's basically true. Until you live in close proximity with someone for a while, you don't know them like you think you do.

 

[Supervisor42]

Now my thoughts are this. I'm on several forums and this is a really good one in my book. And for one reason or another we are all here.

Heck yes! And though I may disagree with some/many on here, I will not miss a single one of their posts.
For anyone that gets concerned if we get into spirited discussions instead of agreeing on everything like good Mennonites, I offer this:
If there is no disagreement, there is no discussion.
Without discussion, there is no exchange of ideas, viewpoints, or information.
I've been in places where almost every post is just: "I agree" or "I totally agree".
You don't stay there very long .

 

[Hardcalibres]

Invite them to come be your house guest for a month. That should just about cover it.

Sounds like a joke, but it's basically true. Until you live in close proximity with someone for a while, you don't know them like you think you do.

For most of us survivalists, that would necessarily constitute a severe breach of OPSEC.

A better approach may be to go camping with them - and preferably the type of camping that pushes people outside their comfort zone. That provides the opportunity to assess response to stress and how committed they remain to teamwork when they are uncomfortable, tired, ****ed off.

........but for many, it is better to accept going it alone and work out how to maintain security and productivity while short-handed.

That is not easy, but it is lower risk (and is born of a more realistic assessment of what almost all people are really like).